Protect Your Email Reputation: The Ultimate Guide to List Validation

Discover the shocking truth about email marketing: Your reputation is on the line with every send. In this eye-opening episode, email expert Brian Minick reveals how sending to outdated or risky email addresses can get you blacklisted, crippling your entire email program. But fear not, Minick shares simple yet powerful solutions to validate your lists, repair your reputation, and ensure inbox delivery.

From practical tips on cleansing legacy data to cutting-edge techniques like real-time email validation, this episode is a game-changer for any business relying on email marketing. Minick's actionable advice, combined with his generous offer of 2,000 free validations, empowers you to maximise your email ROI and avoid costly mistakes. Don't miss this opportunity to future-proof your email strategy and unlock the true power of this cost-effective marketing channel.

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Transcript

Jim James (00:00)
Did you know that when you're sending an email, you're actually sending your reputation? I once had my emails blacklisted and it put my business out of service and then they put my business out of service for a couple of weeks. Brian Minick is the Chief Operating Officer at a company called ZeroBounce. He's based in Boca Raton in Florida, and he's going to help us to understand some of the pitfalls that there are if we don't validate

not only our own email, but also if we're buying any lists or we're sending emails to people where we've acquired those contact details. Brian's gonna help us to understand what we can do to ensure that we've always got a sound reputation. And at the end, he's gonna help you by offering you 2000 validations. So stick around, that's gonna be worth having. Brian, welcome to the show.

Brian Minick (00:52)
Thank you, Jim. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Jim James (00:55)
Well, thank you, because we're in a tech area with email that I haven't touched on before, partly because it seems quite techie, but you've got over 300 ,000 customers. So plainly, this is a niche that's a mile wide. Explain please for me and my fellow unnoticed entrepreneurs, what is this sort of email validation? How does it work and why do we need it?

Brian Minick (01:24)
Yeah, absolutely. So email validation is really important. Basically, what it is is the, if you want to think about it as the hygiene or kind of removing some of the bad or risky data. And I'll talk a little bit more about some of the riskier types of data. But why it's important is because exactly what you were saying you had is if you're not paying attention to this, you will run into some issues where the mail server is no longer like you. And that can be for many different reasons.

But some of the earliest and quickest indicators for these mail servers not to like you is due to poor quality of the data that you're sending to. So recipients that do not exist, recipients that mark you as spam, and a few other types of things. And these really, really impact your ability to get into the inbox, which is the holy grail of email marketing. If you're in the spam folder, it is a giant waste of time.

And so our goal and our mission is to provide a service to help you clean up that data and provide you some tools that also let you kind of monitor, understand, and repair even some of your reputation issues that you might be having. And many people are not even aware that they have these issues.

Jim James (02:39)
You know, it's really interesting that you talk about getting sort of blacklisted by the recipient. So what's interesting that you said there are many things, but one is that some people that receive the email might mark you as spam. But what you're saying is there's almost like some kind of bogus emails in these lists that if you're sending to them, they're kind of, it's almost like an entrapment. Is that what you mean, Brian? So we could be completely unaware that we're sending out emails to lists,

Brian Minick (03:04)
Yeah.

Jim James (03:09)
that are sort of disabling our programs. Is that right?

Brian Minick (03:14)
Yes, absolutely. So there's a few different ways to think about this. And one of them could be you've had this data for 10 years and we have done industry research around this business data is churning at an alarming 33% year over year. So email data, these are contacts moving, moving companies, businesses closing down. So those are invalid recipients that people are still just hoarding. And so we can kind of help clean that up. And then also there's emails that are

literally created by the companies like Yahoo, Gmail, Minecast, all of these kind of spam filters that people use to filter their mail. And if you're sending to them, they will automatically throw your entire campaign into the spam folder and everything that you do moving forward into the spam folder because they have quote unquote trapped you. You have sent an email to a non opted in, never subscribed scraped email that came off the web,

which probably came from a purchased list, or some of these providers that sell leads and data and they tell you it's great, they're not always so transparent on how they got that.

Jim James (04:26)
So reading what you're saying there, Brian, it's not only that I've bought data, but also I've got legacy data. I've mean,  had my company for 25 years. So I have data in there that hands up, I haven't cleansed. I'm still sending in a weekly newsletter, which I've been doing for years. And you're saying actually that in itself is putting me at jeopardy. It's not even that I've gone out proactively to buy lists, even just really a lack of good housekeeping,

Brian Minick (04:42)
Mm -hmm.

Jim James (04:55)
of my side could throw me in jeopardy.

Brian Minick (05:00)
Yes, absolutely. And even something that's maybe just to bring awareness to this because it happened just February 2024, Yahoo and Google, so Gmail and Yahoo accounts, they have been purging emails and they're purging the inactive accounts that have been created for many years. And the concept here is they're running out of the ability for people to create meaningful names on their email accounts because everyone has just used these things.

Many of those are abandoned and so now they're deactivating those and that's another red flag as a sender. If you are now sending to these inactive deactivated accounts, they would start to question why because they've never logged in in four years. They've never replied to an email. They've never clicked an email, but yet all these people keep sending to them. So very important. Once again, this can get really gritty as to, you know,

where we can identify all these different types of things, but they come with a lot of risk, and that's the part that I think is important for people to understand.

Jim James (06:00)
I Think that's, well, now it's explained to me probably why I got blacklisted all those years ago without thinking I'd done anything wrong. Actually, I just hadn't done anything right in terms of sanitizing my list. Brian, what about this issue where one has to change, for example, your DKIM and your SPIF? I know it's a bit technical. I'm not a technical person, but I've had to go in and fix on GoDaddy because

Brian Minick (06:13)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Jim James (06:30)
my email provider Zoho was saying, my emails are not going to go through because I hadn't done this. Because the reason this is important is because it really doesn't, it's not up to us to just say, well, I don't have enough of those emails. Actually, the senders are also starting to demand this, aren't they? How do you help with ZeroBounce for people like me who maybe don't know how to do that, don't know if we're at risk? Do you help with that as well?

Brian Minick (06:56)
Yeah, absolutely. And really important here to understand that you don't have to be technical to get help. What you need is to identify the issues. And so one of the most common things that I see is people and small business owners or even large business owners with segmented departments, right? Marketing is not talking to sales. Sales isn't talking to tech. This is very common. And it really doesn't matter the size of the company. But let's say marketing decides they're going to move from Mailchimp to Zoho one day

and they don't talk to tech about that. There's a lot of things that didn't happen that needed to happen in order to now send through a different platform. So that's very common. If you're moving platforms and you've not done any technical changes, I don't want to scare anyone with the word technical change. It is literally a copy and paste and hit the button save, but they are technical in a manner of how the mail servers look at you now as a sender.

And so it's again, super important. SPF is basically identifying these are the platforms that I send from. So you would list Zoho as a sender, as a sending platform. And if you don't, basically what the whole world sees is that they think someone else is trying to use your domain to send mail. And now they're saying, no, no, no, no, no, this is phishing. This is spoofing. And they'll want to throw you in the spam folder. And so you can send us a test email from your platform and we'll run an analysis in 10 minutes,

and tell you exactly the problems that you have. We can help guide fix it as well.

Jim James (08:26)
Well, people would go to Zerobounce.net to do that. I really recommend people try that. Brian's actually got a very nice offer to listeners of 2000 validations for email addresses. At the end of the show, he's going to show you how to get to that. So do stay around us. So what's really interesting is almost if I could, can I draw the parallel with if you run a restaurant but you don't keep cleaning

Brian Minick (08:30)
Mm -hmm.

Jim James (08:50)
underneath all the furniture, you just sort of assume that you're just wiping the countertops, it's enough. Would there be a simplistic view?

Brian Minick (08:57)
This is exactly the concept, right? So, you know, you have people clean their house. We don't think about it, right? We just clean. We clean our cars. And if we don't, what happens? Things get ugly. People don't look at the car and think it's so beautiful anymore. This is it's maintenance. This is maintenance in your data. This is hygiene. And this is imperative to your business, regardless how much email you send, by the way, I want to actually also make sure that's clear. You might say, I don't send very much mail. Well, if you send a welcome email for everyone who signs up on your website,

and then you want to send an offer, which is where the ROI of email marketing comes in as the offers. If none of those emails are being received, of course your ROI is low and ZeroBounce. Email marketing is the cheapest form of marketing there is. And so if you're not making money on email marketing, I hate to say this, but I want to put the light bulb in your head, something's wrong. And you've got to look into that and understand why. Because again, there's no better way to put a message and think about the push notifications, right?

Boom, here's an email from Jim and it's now a preview. Okay, let's read it. These things are super important to make sure they're in the inbox.

Jim James (10:05)
Thank you for flagging this because until now I thought that I guess like everybody that once I've got those emails in my account and I'm sending through Zoho campaigns once a month, you know, for years, I know I'm getting some that are coming back moved. But what I haven't also known how to do is to cleanse that data without manually going through thousands of records. You know, you download the Excel, sort them by date.

Brian Minick (10:31)
Mm -hmm.

Jim James (10:35)
Does ZeroBounce help with that? Because that task itself of cleansing the data can be frankly time consuming and a little bit overwhelming. How do you help with just the practical side of getting the rubbish out of the apartment?

Brian Minick (10:45)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah, so we do it in a couple ways. Obviously, we have the manual route, but let's move right past the manual route. That's an obvious one. On the automated side, depending upon which platform you store that data in, we probably have an integration. And what's key about the integrations is two things. Number one, you can set a kind of auto repeat where every 30 days, let's run through the whole data set again and clean it up. Or, and really,

any time a new contact is in there, let's clean it immediately and kind of figure out what to do with it from there. So it is the what's important is to be proactive as well as reactive. So people usually come to us. We have two types of major clients, the people that know they're going to have a problem because they've been educated and the people that have a problem and don't know what to do. And it always starts with the data, the quality of their data.

The other one, which is more technical, but still very easy if you use sites like WordPress and other stuff there where you collect the data, is we have plugins that actually will validate in real time on the website. So what we're doing there, which is critical, is catching typos. We're catching people just smashing the keyboard to get to your coupon code or whatever your pop-up is there for. We can catch all of that and suggest the typo fixes in real time

Jim James (12:08)
Mm.

Brian Minick (12:14)
while the user is still on the website, this is super critical, especially if you're a big mobile platform.

Jim James (12:20)
Oh, yeah. And I was going to say, so this is working across all platforms. Of course, right.

Brian Minick (12:24)
Yep, yep, including iOS, yeah, and Android with lots of people that use this on the registrations, on their mobile apps. If you're collecting email addresses, you want to understand the quality of that data.

Jim James (12:36)
Brian, it's worth just sharing the affordability of ZeroBounce as well with people so that they understand that how accessible this is and that the ROI is. Do you want to just take us through the pricing just so that people can understand, we can all understand that your explainings are quite, it's a very sophisticated technology, but it's very affordable, isn't it?

Brian Minick (13:00)
Yes, absolutely. So the way that we kind of think about it is you pay for a validation and we give everyone 100 per month for free. So if you're a startup, you're collecting 30, 40 a month, that's totally free and that's not watered down. That is full version, nothing watered down, nothing hidden from you. As we start to get into larger quantities, anywhere from 2000 to people purchasing,

quite honestly about a billion validations all the time. So there's nobody too big, there's nobody too small. 2,000 validations would cost you $18 to clean up. 10,000 which may be a little bit more in a realm of relatable, is gonna cost you $390 to clean up. And the turnaround time on all that, by the way, is about 45 minutes. So you send us the data, you go out to lunch, you come back, all the data's cleaned up, and

you've saved money most likely in the platforms you're storing the data because you're paying to store those invalid bad contacts that you don't want to send to. You're storing those in many systems. Generally speaking, you get ROI on day ZeroBounce as a result of all that.

Jim James (14:11)
Brian, I love that. And as you say, no customer too small, too big. And if you go to Zerobounce.net they even have a very nice calculator so you can input the number of emails that you've got and it'll give you the price. And if you're looking at this on YouTube, you can see I'm doing a screen share for that as well. So I really love the transparency and the self-serve nature there, Brian, as well. You've mentioned that the company started,

2017 went live 2018 I understand and you've managed to acquire over 300 customers. I think you mentioned you're getting about 400 new customers per day. So most people would their minds would boggle at that. So there's operational issues I'm sure from a marketing point of view. If we can talk to that, how have you managed to scale ZeroBounce?

Brian Minick (15:05)
Yes, so every I would say this when we did start the business everything did have some sort of scale in mind now was it ready for it not necessarily but did we have an idea and a concept how we wanted to think about it so for example self -service was built in from day day one we knew in order to get to levels of you know where we are today it cannot be manual work it cannot be people doing the work every day it has to be

self-service let the customer do what they need to do, and obviously provide amazing support as a result of that. So that's been kind of one thing that we've definitely done. But scale has come and has been challenging, to be very honest. We have failed many times in different things.

Jim James (15:50)
As we all do. That's part of the entrepreneurial journey though, isn't it?

Brian Minick (15:53)
I think you have to fail. If you're not failing, then someone's not telling you good feedback or something. Something's wrong because you have to fail and you have to try and you have to also be okay with knowing that you tried and you failed and you moved on. We don't harp on it. We don't belittle each other on an executive team saying, why'd you try that? We have done many things that we didn't think would work and we're shocked that it actually did and vice versa. Things that seemed obvious

Jim James (15:58)
Yeah.

Brian Minick (16:22)
that we thought would work, for example, partnerships with really large brands. Well, it didn't work because they didn't want to be in bed with just one vendor, for example. So we went and set that route. We go after them. We have the meetings. We have the discussions. We put everything together. You go through legal, contract, and all of this stuff. And then ROI, zero And so sounds great. Perfect. It's a complementary business to us. We could both market each other. And again, there's nothing wrong with this, but we tried it. It didn't work. We tried it again

to make sure we didn't just fail on one. And we moved on and it's okay. We just now also know what not to do in the future and where to find the good channels. So it's important.

Jim James (17:03)
Yeah, it is. I love that you've got an R&D and I guess that all sort of fail fast and fail frequently to get to the future forward. What about getting the brand awareness? ZeroBounce now, very well established. What are some of the activities that you tried that did work, Brian, to start to get the direct customers? Because that's the most profitable way of doing it, isn't it? If you can get the customers organically

Brian Minick (17:08)
Yep.

Jim James (17:32)
without sharing the margin with any partners anyway. So what did you do as a team to build the brand?

Brian Minick (17:32)
Mm -hmm.

So a few things. Well, number one, we had a mission to be and to make sure that we were absolutely everywhere. That was just a general concept that we had. And so what does that mean, you might say? Well, we were doing press releases. We were doing ads on every marketing platform. We were doing a ton of retargeting, meaning we're showing our logo to people who visited the site or were researching on the industry.

What we also did and really doubled down on was a lot of getting customer reviews. So we were very focused on that. We made sure that we got, everyone would tell us they love the service, right? And a lot of people will just leave it right there. And what's important is to get those people to try to share that information on another publicly self-service available platform that they can read that and feel unbiased reviews. And we're very proud of those. Those are definitely a key.

And it's not easy to get, by the way. We have over 1,000 five-star -star reviews. We used TrustPilot, and we did that because we were able to automate some emails to paying customers and saying, hey, if you really like the service, could you leave us some feedback? And another thing that we did, which is super critical, especially in the beginning, is we listened to customer feedback. We adapted when we thought it made sense.

Jim James (18:37)
And which platform did you use for that?

Brian Minick (19:02)
And we also did not listen when it was clearly an outlier for one customer who was just raising hell. And so that, in the beginning, is very challenging to decipher. What is that person that's actually giving you feedback that is impactful for the entire platform and people with love? And then who's the guy who's screaming, but in reality, you're doing just something for him or her?

Jim James (19:08)
Hmm.

And how did you decide, Brian, because you can have one very loud influential client that really is an outlier, and maybe some smaller ones that are telling the truth but have got less loud voices. How would you decide that?

Brian Minick (19:38)
So we would do a few things. We would constantly ask for customer feedback. And when we did get the feedback, we would also then send that feedback out to the customer base saying, hey, if we were to introduce the ability for you to automatically validate all of your data in your CRM, you know, with the press of one button, would you do that? And that came from a customer request saying, hey, like, I don't want to go in here and have to hit the button every time. And I'm like, okay, I mean, that makes sense, right? I understand that.

Now, what has been more custom and what we didn't do, just maybe for an example on the other side, is someone saying, hey, I need the reporting of every user that's ever touched the platform and did this x, y, z, and I want to log, and I want that in a PDF. And by the way, I'm not paying you to do this type of work. This should be included in the service. And let me know if you can have that in the next 15 days. That was with experience

and repetition, you start to kind of understand who's asking for the one offs and who is really kind of saying something that's impactful for the whole ecosystem. And so you will fail there too, but again, super important to just understand where and when you're failing and take that back into the team, digest it, don't get hung up. I think that's the most critical part. Don't get hung up, don't get emotional. Just take the learnings and move on and keep marching.

Jim James (20:35)
Yeah.

Really?

And have you marched globally, Brian? I mean, is ZeroBounce geography independent? Are the customers coming from around the world? Because that would mean you need to be multilingual as well. Just love to hear your sort of approach and availability as well. Because my listeners are literally all over the world, over 200 countries.

Brian Minick (21:27)
Yes, so we operate in every single country of the world, well, other than Russia and Belarus at the moment due to some US sanctions. But other than that, we are operating in every single country of the world. We are supporting multi-currency which is another thing that was important for our business. So we are accepting basically every single local currency, and we allow those customers to pay in those currencies. Multilingual is definitely part of the approach.

However, to be fair, we haven't seen as much traction with that as what might seem apparent. And so that was another little learning lesson, right? It just seems like US, or sorry, English in general, people just seem to, browsers are translated automatically. A lot of stuff didn't end up being needle movers, but the currency conversions did. People want to pay in the currency that they're familiar with, not USD, for example. And so that was definitely big.

And then the 24/7 365. So I have real people who are supporting our clients 24 hours a day seven days a week 365 days with no exceptions We have not missed a day since 2018 or an hour without a representative being available for the customer in real time and That has been challenging to be to be very honest running a 24 7 operation With you know, of course you have everyone from every country. So now we're translating sometimes the

Jim James (22:46)
Yeah.

Brian Minick (22:53)
the communication, the chatting and whatnot. But we've gone through it, we've gotten the procedures in place, you live, you learn, and you get better, you improve.

Jim James (23:02)
Well, it sounds like if you go over 300,000 customers, you've improved in the right direction. But Brian, you know, I do ask that question that there's one thing that hasn't gone quite according to plan. What would that be? If there's a

Brian Minick (23:17)
Yeah, so what hasn't gone to plan and in the beginning seems like the obvious thing to do was we started hiring marketing agencies to do our paper click, our, actually, it's crazy to say this, our email marketing and other things because simply we didn't have the people, right? It wasn't a matter of we didn't want to do it. We obviously wanted to do it. What we didn't have was the bandwidth and resources to accomplish it. We're a bootstrapped company.

We didn't have outside funding. We still don't have outside funding. And so obviously every dollar matters. So it seemed logical to go towards an agency who has done this. They know what to do, set it up and run with it. And it was one of the biggest kind of eye -openers in the beginning because what you learn, at least what we learned was that no one will work as hard for you as your own employees because number two, we treat our employees with incredibly great

packages and great pay. We're very competitive. We're above average on everything. And quite honestly, I would say cutting edge on a lot. But the contractors and the agencies, I'm sorry not to knock you, but do a better job here. You're not acting like employees. You're acting like contractors who don't have the passion, the blood, the sweat, the tears of the business owner who's doing the work and who started this. And so what we've kept hearing was, oh, we've got to give it another 90 days, another 90 days

another 90 days and you know, you're six months, nine months, a year into something and no results. If that's an employee, you change, you do something about that. And so that was just kind of something that we took away and we brought all that in-house. We, we, we pay, we bit the bullet, we paid the people and paid them right. And there's nothing better. I mean, when something happens, they're right there. They're want to do things. They know they're, it's their performance and they can see their own outcomes and you know,

Jim James (24:55)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Minick (25:15)
Employee versus contractor is always very different.

Jim James (25:16)
Yeah. Interesting observation. Of course, you've got to get to that stage when you're crossing the chasm where you've got enough volume and enough budget to bring that in because then it will be cheaper than an agency, but you've got the fixed cost instead of the variable cost. Brian, what about a number one tip? You've mentioned trying and failing and succeeding, but could you give us one tip for,

success in getting noticed that you think really stands out and that ZeroBounce used most.

Brian Minick (25:50)
Yes. So one of the biggest things and it's just at this point deeply rooted into me as a person as well is a lot of people think that there's this magic bullet, that there's this one thing that if I just do this one thing, my business is going to explode or it's going to go to the next level as a result of that. And I would challenge people to stop thinking like that. And what we did and what worked, and I'm just coming from experience and proven record of this, is that we didn't think about one thing.

We thought about the sum of lots of little things that then compound into the big thing. Right? And so people are, a lot of people want to go like, oh no, we need to, we need to do AI and we have to do it. We have to do it right. And it's going to take two years and we're going to go all in on it. But they did nothing else. We didn't think that way. We said, let's do 10 things. Let's do all of them as fast as possible. Let's get results as quick as possible, whether good or bad.

And what we did was we extrapolated all the good things. And then what we did was found little one percenters, right? One percent or two percenter. Maybe we got a five percenter. But now when you start compounding that on all the new things, these five percenters turned to 20 percenters three years later. And everything is building, building, building. And so that's kind of the, think of the sum of all the little things versus the result of potentially one thing.

Jim James (27:13)
Brian Minick, I love that idea that lots of small changes collectively will add up. And I guess that's part of the atomic habits theory as well, isn't it? If we make small incremental changes, it's much less daunting in a way, isn't it? And we're not betting everything on one hero solution, but just making incremental changes. Brian, I will ask you for something that you listen to

that helps you to get incremental changes or maybe quantum changes for you as a manager, as a COO there at ZeroBounce and also a father of two young daughters like me.

Brian Minick (27:45)
He he.

Yes. Well, I love listening to the Joe Rogan podcast, but I wouldn't say that's helping me on a professional side. But on a professional side, I've attended a course in a continued education at Harvard Business School and other courses that really are just eye opening. Even if they sound like you already know what you're talking about, I can promise you, you don't. And you will always learn. And so never stop learning. Keep going to different things. Push yourself. And stop being a know it all.

Go listen to some people who actually do know a focused subject. So that's what I did.

Jim James (28:26)
Well, okay, well, and that's why I've come to you, Brian, to find out about emails and email sanity and also about sending reputation. Brian, you kindly have an offer for my listeners and community. What would that be before we leave?

Brian Minick (28:41)
Yeah, so we want to give everybody 2,000 validations for free. Obviously, you would still get that 100 per month for free at any time. Any user can get that at any time. And then in addition, some of those extra tools I spoke about, which I didn't even go into big detail, but send in us an email to evaluate the technical specs. A blacklist monitor, so you put your domain on it to see if anything pops up will alert you.

Inbox testers, you can send emails to us to see if they want to inbox or spam before you send your campaign. All of those you can get for free every month as well. We have a free toolkit there. And so I just want to encourage everyone to take advantage of free tools, again, not watered down on any level and just available for you to take advantage of.

Jim James (29:24)
What code do people need to go to a particular domain name and give a code to get the 2,000 or

Brian Minick (29:30)
You can reach out to me or our support team and just say that you came from, you know, the podcast and the UnNoticed Entrepreneur and we'll go ahead and add them to you directly.

Jim James (29:31)
Okay.

Brian Minick, if we want to reach out to you directly, where can they find you?

Brian Minick (29:43)
Yeah, LinkedIn's a great one. I try to stay active there. I'm not so active on the posting, but I'm very active on people who engage with me and want to understand or have a technical question. By the way, my background's very technical, but I'd love to transform that into more of a layman's terms. And so happy if you think you have a problem, you probably do, and I'm happy to also kind of help and consult a little bit.

Jim James (30:06)
Brian Minick, that's wonderful. Just so that you know, it's M -I -N -I -C -K for Brian's surname. Brian, we've gone over my normal time because you've just kept this conversation so rich in terms of information. And I think it's just such a valuable and frankly unexplored part of marketing. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Brian Minick (30:30)
Thank you, I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

Jim James (30:33)
Well, it's been illuminating and I feel also a little bit guilty to be honest that I haven't swept under the bed of my email database for a long, long time. And I know I'm going to be using that 2,000 before the week is out. So thanks for joining me and Brian Minick on this episode of the UnNoticed Entrepreneur. I really hope that you found it as informative as I have. Take action because you are going to be sending your reputation and you do not want to get blacklisted. I hope I haven't

made myself unpopular with it and you're not going to blacklist this show. Hopefully you're following me and you are going to share this episode with a fellow UnNoticed Entrepreneur. And until we meet again, I just encourage you to keep on communicating.