Cracking the Sales Code: Dance Like a Cockatoo in the AI Age

Gail Kasper, author of "Sell Like a Cockatoo", reveals how to thrive in an age of AI and digital communication. She shares insights from her mentor Hank, a master salesman who embodies the art of human connection. Learn why face-to-face interactions and strong communication skills are more crucial than ever, even for Generation Z. Gail explains how to build trust, convey passion, and guide customers through the sales process with authenticity. She also offers valuable advice on writing and promoting a book, building a social media following, and finding the right balance between online presence and real-world networking. Whether you're an entrepreneur or sales professional, this episode provides actionable strategies to elevate your game and dance with your customers like a cockatoo.

Recommended book: "The Art of Closing the Sale" by Brian Tracy

Graphic design toolbox - Visme
Visme is an online form builder specifically built to optimize for better conversions.

Vidyard - Use Video In Your Emails
Vidyard is the easiest way to record and send videos that build personal connections.

AI Writer - Content writing made easier
Generate Accurate, Relevant & Quality Content in 2 Minutes

Peppertype - Virtual Content Assistant
Generate better content copies in seconds with the power of Artificial Intelligence.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

Jim James (00:00)
You may ask yourself the question, what has a Cockatoo got to do with sales? And why does a female entrepreneur write about a male salesman in her book? And then also how does a female entrepreneur write a story and launch it and get her own book to be so successful? Well, the answers to those questions are going to be posed to Gail Kasper, who is my princess of Philly. She came on the show,

a couple of years ago and I'm delighted to have her back because she's such an inspiration and she has an amazing story. Gail, thanks for coming back and telling me about your new book called Cockatoo. Tell us about it.

Gail Kasper (00:43)
First of all, Jim, thank you for having me. I love being here and I love the idea of speaking to your audience and contributing to their life in some way. So thank you for having me again. I really appreciate that. Cockatoo came about because when I would stop and think I have been in the sales world for a lot of years, you know, I started as a single entrepreneur. I was actually fired from my job. I was working inside a training organization. They fired me. I was out

on my own overnight having to figure out how to build a consulting business. So I had taken that from consulting with one sales representative to then training the East Coast for an entire organization to continuing to take my sales world and sales training out there into the world. So I know what it is to have to struggle. I know what it is to have to build. I know what it is to constantly have to reinvent yourself and

when I stopped and I looked at today's sales world, it's not just, hey, knocking on doors and, I've got a great product here and I want to sell it to you. It is really about understanding and building relationships with customers. And it has always been that, except now, today, we need that even more. And that's where Cockatoo comes in. Because Cockatoo, number one, builds a 60 year relationship with you. And number two, they dance.

So when you look at what a Cockatoo is all about, they dance. And when you are as a sales representative, you have to be able to move and shift with your customer. So that's where the idea of Cockatoo came about. It's really taking what's going on in the sales world and it's elevating it to be as progressive as we can be because in today's day and age, you have got to be current. You can't just do the same old, same old that you've been doing for years.

Jim James (02:38)
What has changed then, Gail, because you took about it's been the same, but it's changed. What has changed? Because if sales is always about relationships, why do we need to revisit that concept?

Gail Kasper (02:52)
And that's a great question Jim because reality is that this world is all technology. So we're all behind our phone. We're all behind the computer and building those relationships is harder and then on top of that we have AI. So now we're even further removed from our customers. We've got to find ways to get in front of them to connect with them to stay connected so that they feel like family because it doesn't exist anymore.

So you have to, in being current, you've to get around, you've got to maneuver around the technology to get in front of them.

Jim James (03:26)
So tell us about Hank, the protagonist in the book. And we'll ask you, after why you've chosen a, I'm assuming it's a male protagonist with a name like Hank, but I could be wrong. Gail, tell us about Hank and the journey that he's going on. I'm assuming it's not sort of a Death of a Salesman, Willy Loman style story.

Gail Kasper (03:32)
The lead.

Yes.

Jim James (03:55)
Tell us about Cockatoo and what are some of the lessons that Hanky's going to be teaching us.

Gail Kasper (04:00)
All right, so here's the deal. Hank is real and he's responsible for millions of dollars in sales. And when I studied him, he was a mentor of mine, when I studied him and how he moved, his body language, his tone of voice, his words, everything matched. When Hank would walk in a room, he may not even be there to see you, but you were drawn to look. You just noticed him, you noticed his presence.

When he spoke, his tone of voice matched his body language. So whether that was empathy, whether that was enthusiasm for the product, it was all consistent, which means that myself as a customer, when I'm listening to Hank, I believed him. And on top of that, Hank had integrity. So meaning now I not only believe him, I trust him. And on top of that,

Hank, because he believes so much in that product, which is what you need today, you've got to have that passion behind what you're selling. If you don't have the passion behind it, don't sell it. It's like any entrepreneur out there. They get involved in a project, they get involved in a mission that means something to them. And every sales rep is the same thing. You've got to be involved with something that means something to you.

So you take that energy and enthusiasm and because you know what you're doing, you're confident and passionate about what you're selling, you have this momentum and energy that just guides the sales process. It guides the sale forward. And with Hank, you followed him. So it wasn't, hey, you know, hi, I'm Hank and you are. Hank would say his name and you felt compelled to say your name back. You felt compelled to follow him.

And in today's day and age, when you are that powerful, you know your product better than the designer themselves. You believe in it. You're able to talk about it. You're able to convince someone of their, you know, take away their fears to kind of elevate your power and product knowledge so that they want to buy. So that's the difference with Hank. So it had nothing to do with really male or female. It just happened to do with Hank.

Jim James (06:11)
actually, he's a real person, so it's not a fictitious, it's not an avatar, it's a real guy.

Gail Kasper (06:14)
No, no, no, but reality is Jim, mean, I, I understand that, you know, a saleswoman salesman, you know, we, there was an age that it was salesmen. It was a salesman. That is just the truth of the matter. And there are sometimes phrases that stick with us through the years. So,

I don't think I ever will not call myself a salesman. And it's not to be disrespectful to women in any way. It just, I am a salesman. And there is a power behind that. It is the origin of the word. And I never want to take away from that. it's just, that's just something about who I am.

Jim James (07:02)
Okay, in a way salesman has become sort of a gender neutral noun, if we can put it that way, right? If in this day and age we're allowed to have such a thing.

Gail Kasper (07:14)
Right, that's the key, are we?

Jim James (07:16)
Yeah, I don't know whether I'm getting too old probably to stay in touch. I'm getting too old to really care for actually what pronoun I'm using.

Gail Kasper (07:25)
I that's why I say at one time that's what it was and there is a power behind it and I don't want to take away from that. I don't have to be a saleswoman. I'm a salesman. That's it, cut and dry. There you go.

Jim James (07:40)
Let's just say you sell things, and that solves the whole problem, but a little bit of wordplay, will get us around that. So Gail, though, let's just think then about the challenges facing people that are making sales, which is really the transaction, right, between what some company or person has built and what somebody needs.

How do you see the future of sales going? Because I spoke with a number of people now who talk about the next generation of people, the young people coming in, having kind of missed some of the socialization due to COVID, for example, and the advent of mobile phones, that actually they're having multiple simultaneous conversations with people that they've never met.

In the context of Cockatoo in the book that you've launched, what would be some of the skills, if you like, some of the best practices that you'd be encouraging people to adopt in order to go back, if you like, to the human condition and the importance of those relationships?

Gail Kasper (08:50)
I totally understand what you're saying because the world is making a transition between millennial Generation Z. Generation Z is not quite there yet where it's all technology all on the phone. We see a lot of that right now with Amazon because online buyers, not just Amazon, but across the board are like $800 billion in sales at some ridiculous number.

We have over five billion people that are using the internet today. So there's a lot of action going on online and it's really simple for us to go to the computer and buy whatever. You know, whether that is a car or you're buying a computer or you're just buying, you know, some pens, it doesn't matter. You can buy it all online. So there really, there is a transition going on, but if let's say a Generation Z or any.

They really wanna get ahead of the game in terms of sales. They wanna catch up with their communication skills. Meaning you wanna be at the top of the pack, then learn those outside skills. Be ahead of everyone else. There is negative connotation when it comes to sales. A salesman, they're selling you something and that's their job and they wanna take you and get your money from you. But the reality is that in sales, we're there to help. And if you walk in the door to see someone

or someone comes to see you and they're selling you something, they are there to help you. They're there to present you with the options, to figure out what's best for you, and honestly, you wouldn't have called them or you wouldn't go to see them if you didn't intend to buy, because you don't have to today. You can go online and buy something. But if a generation is really going to stay ahead of the game today, get out from behind your phone and start to communicate with people.

Start to go to networking events, start to get out there and have real conversations with everyone because that's going to put you ahead of the curve. People can't connect with you behind an email or behind your phone. They can only truly connect with you face to face.

Jim James (10:54)
Gail, do you think that matters for low value items or is that only really around high ticket items that that's going to be an important skill to

Gail Kasper (11:06)
Well, the low value items, low ticket items, again, we can buy them online and we may want to. It might just be easier for us. But if it's an investment we're uncertain of, like I'm not sure which direction I want to go. That's where that face to face is going to be truly valuable. Is the world going more toward online? It is. But again, that doesn't take away from the fact that if you want to be ahead of the pack, be an excellent communicator, be an excellent communicator. If I could give kids in high school that skill,

to get in front of groups, to communicate effectively, to learn the skills that will put them ahead in this world. Those are the skills that are ultimately going to do it, not what's going to keep them behind the computer or behind their phone.

Jim James (11:49)
Yes, and ironically enough, in this day and age of AI, it'll be the ability to be human that will be the differentiator, won't it? The technology will become transparent to the user and it'll be the empathy, as you say with Hank, the warmth, the loyalty that will differentiate. With the book, with the Cockatoo, you've self-published , and Gail, when you came on the podcast before, I was amazed at how you'd managed to write books,

audiobooks, you've managed to go across the hallway and get yourself a position just by showing up really and putting yourself there, but also really doing the work. Tell us about the work involved in writing Cockatoo because it's a story in itself.

Gail Kasper (12:22)
Thank

Yeah, it's kind of funny actually, because when I was thinking about Cockatoo, it was going to be this little tiny book, you know, one of those little quick reads with quotes inside. And, you know, the more I started writing, the more I kept writing and then kept writing and kept writing. And now it's like a 200 page book. But in the beginning, it wasn't going to be that. And I think it's important for anyone that's thinking about writing a book is,

you want it to be comprehensive because people have to understand it. They have to be able to follow your mindset and follow the outline. It needs to make sense. So you can't just rush it unless it's a book that's been in your head forever and you've kind of been letting it evolve over the years and writing little notes here and there. Well, that's different. But if you're sitting down with an idea to write a book, you know, really plan it out, write that first draft, like just go through and write whatever.

You're not grading it, you're not planning it, you're not doing anything with it other than a stream of thoughts. And what you're gonna find is that that stream of thoughts will then take a different form. You'll change the outline around, you'll shift things, you'll reorganize things, and then you'll start to add to it. And I would say I've had maybe seven or eight drafts of the book.

Meaning that I would go in and I would continue to say, okay, well, I gotta add to this area. Wait a minute, I can expand on this. But then it reaches a point where you could expand forever. That means you can be in draft mode forever and you don't wanna stay in that space. You gotta reach a point where you say, okay, it's done. It's done. So you know.

It is, it's a very interesting process and you know that you have several books that are out there Jim. So it's a very interesting process, not an easy one at all. And to take it for granted or just think you're gonna throw it together or call your first draft done. Like I said, unless you've got the history elements that really make it solid and even then you wanna make sure you have an editor in place because you wanna know if there are gaps. You wanna know that. You want it to be right.

See, we talk about today's day and age and kids and the world. Do it right. Do it right. Do it right or don't do it.

Jim James (15:05)
Well, I remember on our previous call, you just talked about the aim for perfection and how you recognize that everything that you produce has an impact on your personal brand and that you wanted everything to look as good as possible. And I remember that very, very clearly. And that was something that stuck with me was your attention to detail and your work rate, because the combined impact of those two means that you're extremely busy. I know, Gail.

Gail Kasper (15:17)
Yes. Thank

Jim James (15:32)
when it comes to the promotion for Cockatoo.

Tell us about that because as hard as it is to publish a book, actually that's only really sort of 10% to 20% of the journey with the book. So how do you plan on promoting the book and getting it out there into the hands of people who need it.

Gail Kasper (15:55)
Yeah, and you know, if you find yourself, like I'm self -publishing, so if you find yourself a good self-publisher , they can help support some of those efforts. And I always encourage to social media. I'm really fortunate. I have about 180,000 followers combined with all of my social media. So to me, you know, you're always wanting to talk about it, talk about the book, talk about elements of it, promote it out there on the social media platforms. So that's one way.

And then the other way is strictly through my speaking and training programs too. I make sure that I include the book, especially if I'm doing sales training, that is part of the process. And the program, if I'm training in sales, is Cockatoo. So it does fall online with participants actually getting copies of the book. So I think it's, you have to be doing it consistently and you have to be talking about it with everyone. And any place you can online is where it's going to make a difference.

Jim James (16:55)
And you've got the book Cockatoo now, is it available on Amazon already?

Gail Kasper (17:01)
It is. It is available on Amazon. It's available Barnes and Noble. It should be out there both in the ebook form as well as where you can actually purchase the book and get the hard copy.

Jim James (17:13)
Okay, that's brilliant. also if you go to gailkasper.com , she is kindly offering a preview for UnNoticed Entrepreneur listeners. And I'll put a link to that because she has a CockTube preview, which if you're looking at the YouTube channel here, can see it's glamorous as always, because it is Gail, my princess of Philly here doing this. So we'll include the link, which gives people a preview

to the book as well, but it's available on Amazon, which is fantastic. Gail, what about taking the book and using it then on your social media? You said you've got about 150,000 followers, and that's not a function of luck, that's a function of hard work. Everyone knows that you don't get followers without giving value, right, to them. How did you do that? How did you get

Gail Kasper (18:03)
But yes, that's exactly right.

Jim James (18:09)
so many followers. Why don't you give us a bit of advice there.

Gail Kasper (18:13)
You know, it's interesting because I think that once you figure out what people are interested in and then you are consistent in that marketing effort, people will follow. But there's no simple answer to that. Like I didn't have this official plan when I did it and okay, this is what's gonna build out my social media.

Jim James (18:17)
Okay.

Gail Kasper (18:37)
I knew the direction I was going and then I consistently marketed in that direction and then people followed. But it's actively too, participating in their world. Like social media isn't okay, well I've got my 130,000 followers on Facebook, follow me. It's also being engaged with others. I do the same thing on Instagram. I think I have almost 15,000 on Instagram. But you've gotta kind of participate in the world. And sometimes that's hard to do, sometimes you forget.

I've done it. Meaning that people are liking my stuff and engaging with my stuff and I'm like, wait a minute, Gail, you've to start engaging with their stuff. You know, it's not all about you.

Jim James (19:19)
Well, but it's very hard though, isn't it? Because if you've got that many followers, that's a lot of conversations. Ironically enough, we started the conversation talking about people need to get out one to one. And yet the way you've amplified your presence is at scale, isn't it? Gail, I know this may seem a sci york question, but how do you reconcile that? Because on the one hand, we need the human interaction one to one. And on the other hand, to get

Gail Kasper (19:30)
Yes.

Jim James (19:47)
maybe commercial success, certainly for a book, you do need scale. So what's your view on how entrepreneurs can overcome what might seem to be mutually exclusive challenges?

Gail Kasper (20:01)
I think you need to block time for your social media. Let me give you a sense of what I do. I go on every morning and I kind of see what's happening or where I need to engage. And then I go back on around the noon time. So it's a break from maybe my writing, my work that I have to get done. But at the same time, it's okay what's happening with my brand and what am I gonna do next? And then I do the same thing at night. And sometimes at nighttime, it becomes too, I

until recently really enjoyed this, to go on Instagram and like look at the, you know, the best dessert that has like 80 grams of protein in it, and it only has three ingredients or something like that. You know what I mean? Like to look at some of those videos on Instagram is fun and interesting. And sometimes it's about animals and they make me smile. I mean, so I think you find that balance.

But you also make sure you are scheduling time to be out in the world, to network, to take yourself away from your business. Entrepreneurs, I can't emphasize that enough because I'm not practicing what I'm preaching right now. I work all the time, but I myself have to get out there and make a promise to all of you that I'm gonna do it. You too have to get out there, talk to other people, let them know. There has never ever been a negative with me getting out and talking to people about my business.

Somebody somewhere has either looked me up, that in itself is great. So I'm talking to somebody, they look me up on their phone. Awesome, thumbs up, there's no loss in that. So we've got to make sure that we have that balance.

Jim James (21:36)
I think you're absolutely right. In the third volume of the UnNoticed Entrepreneur book that I've just finished and will come out in October of 2024 with Wiley, a recurring theme from the entrepreneurs that I've interviewed, including you that are in the book, is the need to engage, the need to get out from behind the desk, the phone, and meet people. Even if they're not customers, the social interaction is important, but also it gives you clues to what

is or is not going on in the world. So you don't just live in your own world, especially for those of us that are maybe, you know, working from home as I've been doing, and maybe not have a team permanently in the office, which is more and more people, let's face it, Gail, are not surrounded by a team and going to the office every day. Gail, what's your view on and use of AI? Because you've written Cockatoo, which is really about

humans and getting out and about. What do you think Hank would have made of AI and how would he have used it do you think to make a better job.

Gail Kasper (22:43)
I don't think Hank would have used AI. I don't. I myself am split on AI. I do not like when people write things for me, whether it's copy or maybe they're doing a promo for me and they're writing it. I can tell it's AI. And I squash it and eliminate it immediately.

I am not a fan of utilizing AI to do your marketing for you or to write your book for you or anything else. What I do like AI for is to stimulate ideas. So I might utilize AI to say, okay, I want to write something blah, blah, blah, or I need three tips on public speaking. And I'm not going to utilize what they write, but they might spark something where I'm like

Huh, public speaking, okay, they're really re-emphasizing the importance of the eye contact or whatever it might be. And I'll write my own stuff, but they'll spark an idea. They'll get me to remember something. Maybe I forgot. They'll position something to say, is what's happening. That's current.

hey, what am I gonna do to make that different and better? So I'm not a fan of AI. I'm not a fan of AI reaching out, making phone calls for me. I'm not a fan of it. Like AI is not my friend, but by the same respect, can be your best friend if you utilize it right.

Jim James (24:09)
I'd agree with that. And I found, actually just this morning, I'm working on a course and I was able to speak to the AI and say, I'm doing this, this, and this kind of feedback brainstorm with me here. Because if you ring up anybody and say, can you brainstorm with me for half an hour about something, they'd be like, well, Jim, I'm busy. But the AI was there to have a kind of a brainstorm. So as you say, useful, but not a replacement. Gail.

Gail Kasper (24:28)
Yeah.

And you can tell if I see the word Jim Transformation one more time in somebody's copy Transformation my god AI can't come up with anything else other than transformation but if you knew the number of times I read that in emails like that come to me the word Transformation no, I can't handle it anymore. I can't I can't It's so redundant. It's got to stop.

Jim James (25:03)
Well, the only thing I've started to use the word transformation, which I'm now worried about writing to you because in the book called The Experience Economy, they talk very much about with by James Gilbert, they talk about the transformation economy, about how people are gonna move from experience economy to transformation economy. But now you've made me nervous Gail, that if I write transformation, you're gonna be just deleting my emails.

Gail Kasper (25:31)
I'll never delete your emails, I'll never delete yours.

Jim James (25:32)
you're too kind. But I have used the word transformation, but I did write it myself with a couple of typos, I think a few times. Gail, we've talked about, I just mentioned a book I've been reading. What books or podcasts do you read as an entrepreneur you find inspirational?

Gail Kasper (25:40)
Awesome, good, that's okay, that's okay.

typically I will always number one with podcasts. I Google all the sales podcasts because I want to stay on top of what's going on in the world with sales and what they're talking about and make sure that I'm current. So there's, that's just consistent to do a Google search with regard to sales. The one book that I always keep close to me that I never ever kind of leave by my side is "The art of closing the sale" with Brian Tracy.

And the reason for that is because of his human psychology and the understanding of the human brain and how it works when it comes to dealing with people. And there's certain books, I think, in life that you always have to keep by your side, and for me, that's one of them.

Jim James (26:36)
That's a great Brian Tracy, of course, he's got great podcasts as well and books and ebooks as well. So thanks for that. Gail, speaking of which, I am going to just share on the YouTube for anyone that's looking on the screen, we've got Sell Like a Cockatoo, it's on Amazon, on amazon .com and that's Gail Kasper, which is Gail, G -A -I -L and Kasper with a K for anyone that is unsure. Gail, if you want to reach out to you or follow you, where can they do that?

Gail Kasper (27:03)
They can go right to gailkasper.com , I have contact forms that are right there. There is a contact page they can reach me. I also want to make sure that whether you're an entrepreneur, business leader, manager, I'm offering a free webinar at offer.gailkasper.com/webinar . You can go there. I'm delivering some new content on how customers

when they're being sold. So how do you make those adjustments? How do you increase your revenue as an entrepreneur? How do you increase your revenues when it comes to your products? So I welcome you to, again, no obligation, no cost. You can just go to that website and again, offer.gailkasper.com/webinar .

Jim James (27:47)
Gail, you're amazing. And of course, now with Apple doing the automatic transcripts, I can put this in the show notes, but actually you could just look at Apple, look in the transcripts, and you can find Gail's URL in that as well, in case I make a mistake. Gail, thank you so much for joining me from Philadelphia.

Gail Kasper (28:01)
Thank you so much, Jim. Thank you, Jim. It was wonderful to see you again. Thank you for having me.

Jim James (28:07)
honestly, it's my pleasure to have you come across on the show. Once again, for anyone listening, Gail Kasper, she's an inspiration because she's one of the most hardworking entrepreneurs, but also one of the most inspirational entrepreneurs that I've had the pleasure to meet and have on the microphone with me on the UnNoticed Entrepreneur. If you've enjoyed this show, then do please share it with a fellow UnNoticed Entrepreneur because you don't want anyone to go unnoticed. And until we meet again, never, and until we meet again, I just encourage you

Gail Kasper (28:33)
Never.

Jim James (28:37)
Keep on communicating.