The Automation Revolution

Are repetitive tasks eating up your valuable time and resources? Automation could be your secret weapon for transforming business efficiency—without breaking the bank. Brandon White, a serial entrepreneur from San Francisco, shares his revolutionary five-level framework for business automation, from basic cloud tools to advanced AI integration.
Drawing from his experience as a venture capitalist and internet pioneer since 1996, White explains how proper documentation is the foundation of successful automation. He illustrates this with a brilliant peanut butter sandwich analogy that reveals why most businesses overestimate their operational clarity. Learn how automated processes can boost your company's valuation, free up your time, and create scalable systems that aren't dependent on you.
Whether you're struggling with calendar management or looking to streamline your entire operation, White offers practical, implementable solutions that can save up to 60% of your time—and significantly impact your bottom line.
Guest's Recommendation:
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Chapters

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• 18:41 (Cont.) The Automation Revolution

Transcript

Jim James (00:01)
In all of our businesses, we've got some tasks and some activities that we repeat hourly, daily, weekly, monthly. And my guest today is going to explain to us how we can automate those. And with amazing savings, automation can transform our business because it will relieve us from the repetitive tasks. And what's great about automation is that it doesn't have to be expensive. It doesn't have to be complicated.

And even better, my guest today is a past master at this. His name is Brandon White. He's joining us from just outside of San Francisco. He's a serial entrepreneur and his specialization is automation. So Brandon White, welcome to the show.

Brandon (00:45)
Thanks for having me, Jim. I really appreciate it. love it.

Jim James (00:48)
Well, we're appreciative of you because you're just recovering as well, I know from COVID. So appreciate you coming on the show and sharing because you've got so much valuable wisdom. Now with automation, we'll dive into what people can do to automate parts of their business. And with savings of you've been to about 30, 40, 50, even 60% in terms of time and therefore bottom line. Let's first of all, find out a little bit about you Brandon before

we move into the topic and helping people to automate parts of their business.

Brandon (01:25)
Well, I think the best way to describe me is a repeat entrepreneur. I've had two exits. I've missed probably, or strikeouts, if you will, probably 20 projects. I was a venture capitalist. I worked at two venture firms and I was an early person at AmeriKa Online. I worked in marketing there and I've sort of had a windy career across many different

industries, luckily, but I started my career as I think, I guess what some might say as a pioneer on the internet, started in 1996 of what became the largest recreational angling for those in the UK, social networking and e-commerce site on the internet. And I eventually sold that to a large media company after a few bumps in the road.

There was some smooth sailing at the end, but there were some few bumps in the road in the beginning. that's really where I get a lot of my experience because back then in 96, 97, 98, the internet was really early and we were building websites and quote unquote automations and things that you see on the web now. We had it all built by hand. Some of it was flat files

for non-geek people, that's really analogous to think about writing on a piece of paper versus typing now and having a word processor that corrects your spelling and your grammar. And now with AI, can even start finishing sentences. So really learn from the beginning of the basics of what you need. And now we live in an incredible world in 2024 here with the advent of

AI and AI how it can apply to your business and how it applies to the web and all these different places. So I feel like we're really again on this rebirth of a new type of technology that's going to just open a world of possibilities, not just for big companies, but for small companies and even solopreneurs out there.

Jim James (03:39)
And that's what we're going to talk about. And I completely hear you because I started my first internet business back in 1998. We were using SQL and ASP and it was tiring. And now it's amazing because automation is available. And we've got examples like Calendly, for example, for scheduling as one very simple example of automation. But Brandon, what you're going to do is to help us to understand as entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, the basics

of automation, because it can sound a bit complicated. And I think we're also going to talk about AI, what we should use and maybe what we need to be careful of with AI. So with your background, can you just take us through, if you like, sort of an automation 101? What does automation really mean and how do we start?

Brandon (04:32)
Yeah, so at 3rd Brain we use a framework, zero to five, that I'd like to walk all the listeners through to sort of give you an idea of the progression that you could think about for your business. So zero is analog. So basically means you have no cloud-based software and you have little or no formal documentation of your operations.

You know, some businesses can still function at that level. My plumber still writes the invoice on a piece of paper that copies, that he gets a copy and I get a copy, and that's how he does it. you know, it obviously works. But there's probably some efficiencies that someone like at that level can get by moving to number one, what we call level one. And that's really a cloud-based 

system, but you have silos. So think that you have tools that are in the cloud, but they're not integrated with one another necessarily. So they don't talk to one another. So you do have them. And the efficiency is that anybody can log on to that system from pretty much anywhere and you can have multiple people helping you and your company, but they're just not integrated. And most of the operations still aren't

documented in a formal way, they exist in people's heads. And I'm sure some of your listeners can think about that and say, yeah, some of our people or myself, I know the process or I think I know the process, but you don't have that book that you can hand to someone that will really let someone scale. And then two is a cloud infrastructure, if you will, that you can integrate.

Some tools, you're basically using tools that do have APIs that can talk to other things. Some cloud-based tools don't. They just are in a silo. And this is, as you move into two, is a place where, okay, well, I want to connect my form on my website to my CRM. And my form allows me to do that, or the form API.

Jim James (06:50)
And just.

Sorry, I just interrupted you. API is what, Brandon? Because a bit of a technical. Okay.

Brandon (06:59)
Think of it as a connector. Think of it as just something that will connect two systems without getting too technical that takes the data. Let's just use a form. Say you're using a Google form. Google may have an API or the mail system or CRM might have HubSpot. We'll have an API that allows you to take a Google form and ingest that data into the HubSpot and that API is that connection highway

that takes that data from the form and puts it into HubSpot. So think of it that way.

Jim James (07:32)
Okay, that's great. It means that for people like me, we don't have to worry about coding anything. We've just got like a piece of Sellotape that helps those things, as you say, a piece of, Yeah, okay.

Brandon (07:40)
Yeah, there'd be a plugin or something that basically low code, no code type systems that you could do. And then with that, because you're starting to integrate things, you're starting to document your operations. Because you have to document your operations in order to build that and say, okay, well, we're going to have an intake form for XYZ. And then we want that to go into our CRM so that we can.

We don't have to one, manually do that. And two is we're going to use that CRM as the basis to understand who's in what stage. Just as an example, so two, you're starting to move up in the cloud system into these integratable systems. Number three is you start to build what we call a unified data layer. So now you're starting to put all of your data in one place and

then you're pulling, trying to make this as simple as possible, you're pulling that data into other things that need it. And that's, you know, from step one, I mean, from level two to level three here, you're starting to get more sophisticated with your systems. And this is for companies that are starting to grow. And even for smaller companies, you can start to do this. You probably will need an outside help at some level

probably to start to get into this unified data layer. And once you have unified data layer, you're starting to get into more sophisticated documentation of your operations simply because you have to map all your systems to figure out what they are, what their purpose is, and then how you're going to get that data into one spot. Number four is you're starting to, now that you have this unified data layer,

you're starting to actually be able to really automate workflows with, I'm doing air quotes for those who aren't watching, with AI. And then you have a human in the loop. You know, at this point, you're maybe, as an example, and I know we're gonna talk about this, Jim, we're gonna talk about examples, is it's reading your email or it's reading

people are emailing you orders and it's pulling orders out of email and starting to put it into a form, which is then put it into your e-commerce system. And that's the type of things that you start to do at level four. And at this point, your operational documentation or SOPs, standard operating procedures, are more formal and I want to say in a book form, but in a form that you can

give to somebody and say, here's how this works. And it will start to allow you to really scale. And then level five, which is, I don't even know if I'm being completely honest that the technology is completely there where you can do it, but it's completely AI driven automation. So that's where there's not even a human in the loop. The tools are integrate, all your stuff is integrated. You have a unified data layer

and you're able to really just let this run on its own. And an important step in level five for us is that zero through four, you have 90% of your SOPs, standard operating procedures and operations documented, but you don't necessarily have edge cases because you're still taking care of these edge cases and these one off cases with the human. When you get to level five, you have your edge cases documented.

And you're trying to basically capture your whole, whatever automation you're doing. And that would be like taking in an order, that order goes into the system. It automatically goes to the warehouse. I'm just using it as like, think of an e-commerce that automatically generates a shipping label. Maybe there's a robot that's actually even packing that. Could be a person, of course. It sends it and then everything else is automated. And if a customer had a question,

they would write into the support and support is automated at some level. So that's like what you're talking about at level five. ultimately you can get there, but I think right now what we're seeing is that you can get maybe 80% there, but the technology just isn't caught up there yet because AI isn't. The AI engines we'll call them, large language models, LLMs.

I just haven't necessarily caught up to be able to be at a 99.9% accuracy.

Jim James (12:34)
Brandon, thank you for that. And I, I love that you've got the five levels of listening to you there. It makes it all so much clearer that you've got these different levels because we've been using tools like, you know, Calendly or I use Zoho and the platforms and they link together. guess that's why people also like Salesforce.com or they like Kajabi or they like HubSpot because these are really providing multiple applications within one,

really one login, right? So for the user, it doesn't require all these APIs and building these things. But what you have also said, which is, think, absolutely essential and people maybe think of automation before they think about documentation. And think what you've really hit on there is the need to document first, isn't it? Any guidance that you can give, and I know you have a company called 3rd Brain and we're going to talk about that in a minute, but

what guidance do you give? Because for many entrepreneurs, even let's say in the first eight to 10 people, where you can really still talk to everybody in the team, documentation is rarely something that takes place except for maybe some of the customer forms and maybe some of the order inquiries. What guidance can you give us? Where to start on documentation branding?

Brandon (14:02)
Yeah, so I want to give a quick story just to illustrate that people believe that they have their operations documented, whether that's in person's head or in a piece of paper. But I think it was my 3rd or fourth grade teacher, I can't quite remember, Jim, did a peanut butter and jelly sandwich exercise that may be one of the most valuable lessons I've learned or at least remember in school.

Is that the assignment was go home and write the directions to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And I think all of us that night went home and thought, well, this is going to be the easiest assignment we've ever had and we're going to get an A on this. Next day, the exercise was everybody put their directions in a box. All the equipment and materials to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich were upfront and random people would go up. picked one of the

pieces of paper, it couldn't be your own directions, obviously. And you had to follow those directions. You could not improvise. And, you know, it turns out for me, I forgot to spread the peanut butter and jelly, which makes a really crappy sandwich, obviously. And my point is, is that probably for your listeners who are listening to this and when they first heard that, they said, well, that's a really an easy task. I could easily do that, but you overestimate your accuracy.

So if we take that lesson and we apply it to business, most people don't have their operations documented. If you go into a business and say, can I have your SOP, Standard Operating Procedures, or your operational book, if you go into a big company, you'll start to see those things for sure because that just happens when you get 500 people or 1,000 people. You really can't operate without that at that level. But in smaller companies

a lot of efficiency is leaked because you didn't document it. And I understand everybody listening, running a small company can be crazy. Even a small company with 50 people in it, you're just really trying to survive and grow your revenue and make product and get it out the door. And you may even be still trying to find product market fit if you haven't already at that point.

You people don't take a step back and do that. And that creates a lot of problems. mean, if you don't start with your operational process to onboard an employee, like you're just losing efficiency out the door right there. I mean, you're losing efficiency from the onboarding process, but you're losing efficiency in your business because this person just doesn't even know what's going on. So I think that's really

what I mean and what you really need to do is sit down. And when you do that, and I want to be completely honest, this is like super boring and really painful. When we go in at 3rd brain, one of our first steps is to meet with teams and people and document their processes for them. Because believe it or not, just that is automation in itself. Without technology, you're really automating processes and things,

because you have the documentation to hand to someone else in that process, really learn, everyone learns a ton, just like I learned that I thought I was gonna smoke this assignment on the peanut butter and jelly sandwich and you didn't spread the peanut butter. So it's a great learning experience and the efficiencies that just come out of that exercise alone are incredible.

Jim James (17:53)
Imagine as well in this day and age where we're all working remotely or in hybrid, we're getting even more divergent somewhere. We used to see everyone come into the office and you'd pick up informally what they're doing or say, do this differently. I can see that's not going to work out. But with the hybrid and the remote, we need even more, Brandon, don't we, to have this documented. Tell us a little bit about 3rd brain.

Brandon (18:22)
Well, 3rd Brain, yeah, is a company that goes and helps companies automate, if you will, or really do a digital transformation. Like the backbone is levels zero through five, which we went over earlier in the show. Like we want to progress and ultimately aim for level five, because if you get to level five, your efficiencies are, the time you save is incredible and it can fall right to your bottom line. I mean, as high as 10%,

if not more in some cases can fall right to the bottom line because of those efficiencies. So we were built because people were asking us as individuals, my business partner and I, Michael, like, hey, could you come in and help us do automations? And what we found was that there needed to be a process. So that's how 3rd Brain started and that's what we do for companies. We're really an embedded digital operations team,

for companies.

Jim James (19:23)
That is so valuable. that's Michael Greenberg, by the way. And if you want to check this out, of course I'll put it in the show notes, but it's 3rd brain, that's the numeral 3 and then rdbrain.co. Okay. So that's how you can find Brandon for anyone that's not seeing this. And if you're listening, you can also go to the YouTube channel and I'll put a link to that. It's just at Jim A. James, because we're doing a screen share. So you can also see Brandon, of course, and you can see his website.

Brandon, can you give us just a couple of practical examples of automation at the sort of one and two level, maybe one for the one and one for the two so that, you know, me and my fellow UnNoticed Entrepreneurs can even start to have a target, you know, what could we automate in the next three to six weeks, maybe that are easy, low hanging fruit, what do you reckon?

Brandon (20:18)
Yeah, I think that you start with the basics and don't try to get too sophisticated. So when we talk about basics, I mean, we could just start at signing up for ChatGPT, I think it's 20 bucks a month or something, or Gemini if you're using Google Workspace is a very good large language model AI tool. And you could simply take

what example could I give you if you wanted to write something you can ask it like hey give me an example I need to respond to a customer for XYZ and give me some three ideas of responses or I wrote this article or blog post and I want to I want to Break it down into 15 posts that I can put on social media. I mean these are some of the I'm using really basic simple things that you could do you've used Calendly as an idea like

most people won't think of that as an automation, but it actually is an automation because now you can just respond to, you know, it's all about efficiency. Digital operations is really about efficiency. It's not necessarily just about AI. It's about what tools and what processes can you put in? So, you know, instead of going back and forth with somebody for five times, if you create a calendar or like product that allows

someone to go in and book that time, then you've just eliminated, I don't know, when I go back and forth, I don't know about you, Jim, sometimes for podcast people who can't fit into a slot that I have, you're usually going to spend in aggregate 15 or 20 minutes going back and forth. That doesn't, somebody listening to this would be like, it's not that much. Well, time yourself on time and add it up over five days when you've gone back and forth with somebody.

Know, 20 minutes, 20 minutes, you're never going to get back.

Jim James (22:15)
Yeah, absolutely. And calendaring is probably one of the most sort of basic, but universal automations, isn't it? And when you talk about the creation of content in a funny way, strictly speaking, is that an automation or is it when we look at some of the tools that take the content and transpose it into other things, can you give us an idea, for example, of audio into text as a platform we could use?

Brandon (22:41)
yeah, I mean a tool like swell.ai that basically you can upload your audio or video and it will automatically create blog posts, smaller posts, summaries, show notes, bullet points. You could create check. You can basically ask this tool to just give you variations of that

original piece of work. That's really what you break it down to. I think you could use it for that. Another example I just want to throw out there as a very simple general thing is if you need contracts, right? You could load a contract template into a tool like ChatGPT and say, here's the, Or I need this type of contract.

Give me a sample, a friend the other day needed an NDA. And he said, hey, do you have a sample NDA? I was like, hey, I'm on the road right now, but if you need it right away, just go to ChatGPT or Gemini and type in mutual NDA and it's going to literally give you probably a decent version of that. Now, what you'll learn as you start to use AI tools and you are trying to

what we call prompt it, because you have to give it directions, is you'll learn to be more specific in those prompts and say, I need a mutual NDA. I want it to be one page in FIT, on one page in 12-point font and things like that. This all goes back to the peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Not only do you have to document your operations, but you also have to think about the directions to give the, quote unquote, computer to give your output.

Jim James (24:31)
And maybe what we also should think about is how many actions we want to automate. Because to start with maybe a good way of viewing this is, you know, go from A to B and look at what tool or what application you can get to just do that one action. As you say, with Swell AI in Cody Snyder is great came on the show and he has automation for creating the content, but also that's the A to B.

As you say, the podcast goes into an article that's A to B and then the B to C is he has a scheduling app in there now where it can send that content to your channel in the same way that tools like Buffer, example, or Zoho social. That's the other automation part, isn't it Brandon? From a getting notice point of view, there are some great tools for automating your content distribution. Any, any suggestions or thoughts about

Brandon (25:15)
Mm.

Jim James (25:30)
you know, from a marketing point of view, great automations that you recommend.

Brandon (25:36)
Yeah, think, mean, I think Swell AI is really moved into that space. A lot of the other stuff that I'm using are really native on the platforms, at least. So we're using a tool like Swell AI to produce these things. And then we're scheduling those things on the social media themselves for mainly because I believe that the native schedules work better

in general as it relates to response rates. We probably do a whole podcast, so I don't want to go down a rabbit hole on that today, Jim. I think that's the thing. One thing I do want to mention for people who are, you know, we're giving some very practical tools. You can also start thinking about the backbone and fundamental of your company when we start moving into like up the chain from one, two, three, is starting to get your data in one place. And you can start to think of using

Jim James (26:08)
No, no, that's.

Brandon (26:31)
tools like ClickUp and Notion and Airtable and these tools where you're going to put all of your data, which we talk about getting integrated, and then the automations become much easier because they're happening on that one platform. So you can do all sorts of automations. I mean, there's just a hundred things that you can keep track of once you have your data in one place. So ultimately, I think for everybody that's listening, that's really what you're striving for because if you're anything like me and

you've experienced these places where it's like, got data here, I got data here, and data here. We don't even have an operational map on where the data is. The other problem is that we don't even create rules about how people can file data. That's why we can never find things in the first place. We could go down a whole episode on just that, I think.

Jim James (27:19)
And, and.

Well, I think you're right. We can get a bit geeky, I know, but I think in principle, what we're also saying here, Brandon, is the need to simplify and to think about maybe the finance operations, the human resource operations, the marketing. You could start by mapping out just the A, B, sort of two-step, the Foxtrot, if you like, in each department

and get that written down offline, as you say in paper and pen first, before you start to automate it, before you start to get too complicated. And of course, that's why a company like yours, 3rd Brain exists, because when people want to go from second to 3rd level, as you said earlier on, they are probably going to need some assistance because it gets very, very complicated very quickly. You are also just changing the subject slightly. You know, you're an investor

and you've been an entrepreneur, what is the impact on the valuation of a business when it starts to have automation throughout the company? Because you are also starting to remove the dependency on the entrepreneur, on the founder, aren't you? So just tell us, know, automation isn't an end in itself, is it also has a significant impact on the valuation of the business?

Brandon (28:47)
It absolutely does. I don't have an exact number. I wish I did, but I do know that it increases the value of a company just in general from having seen acquisitions and companies selling themselves. I'm thinking of a lady, a friend of mine who has a cleaning service. She's in Canada. She cleans homes. She started it from the ground up. She's done a great job. And one of the reasons she's been able to go from putting flyers in mailboxes to millions in revenue,

is because she has documentation and she gets offers for her company. And on top of that, Jim, what I'll say is not only are you increasing the value of your company, but you're actually freeing up your time because now you have these systems that people need to follow which scales you. Now, that's not going to scale your creativity and your vision and your leadership necessarily, but it is going to scale

your operations and actual sort of hands-on work that are just not repetitive, but regular things that have to be done. And when someone comes to your business and you can hand them this, here's how we do everything. Here's our processes. I mean, when somebody thinks about buying a business, they're also thinking, how am I going to integrate myself or if another company, how am I going to integrate this business into it?

I hate to use generalizations as it's super valuable, but it will undoubtedly increase the price if you're trying to sell your business that you can sell for.

Jim James (30:24)
Good. And thank you for raising that point because sometimes as an entrepreneur, think it's better that I just try and generate cash today than sit down and do documentation of my business, right? But what you've identified is long-term actually, you need to do this to actually be able to run a business rather than to have the business running you. Brandon, you are a serial entrepreneur. 3rd Brain is amazing. I know you've got other businesses as well, but we did decide to focus on automation today. If there's a number one tip

that you would give me and my fellow UnNoticed entrepreneurs from your position in beautiful San Francisco, what would it be?

Brandon (31:05)
It is have a plan. I think most people have visions and ideas and they jump into the business and they didn't necessarily not just write a business plan, but they didn't do the spreadsheet. And if you don't do the spreadsheet, you don't understand the finances and you find yourself in a situation where you spent

sometimes months or years to find out that maybe your business can only be a 3% net margin or your customer acquisition costs are so high or you didn't think through things in the sense that if you figure out that you need to a million widgets, not a million, let's say you have to sell 50,000 of whatever you have, whether that's units or hours or whatever, people don't back into it and say, okay, well,

what does that mean? How am I going to get to that number? What does that really mean? And what this really goes back to is starting to document the operations and document the plan and just see if things are viable for me, think that's where I've made some mistakes early in my career.

Jim James (32:23)
Okay, and do you have something, I have shared screened it on your website on Brandon White, which is BrandonCWhite.com. You've got a how to write a business plan. Anything there?

Brandon (32:34)
Yeah, mean, thanks for teeing that up. I'm going to hit that slow pitch, Jim. I wrote a book on how to write a business plan, 11 slides, mainly because I wanted to operationalize myself. A lot of people asked me how to write a business plan. I kept repeating myself, so I operationalized it and just wrote a book and said, you can buy the book. I'm not getting rich off writing books, but you can buy the book for not a of money on Amazon.

Really how to write a business plan, 11 slides, and I wrote it so that you could write a business plan on a flight from San Francisco to New York. It's easy to read, easy to understand, and I don't think you need to spend 29 weeks on building a business plan, but I do think you should spend some time thinking about that. If people are listening and saying, I already have a business plan, and well, you should be doing a shutdown at the end of the year, whether that's November or December

and building your plan for the next year. Big companies do that every quarter. I mean, they're doing that all the time, especially public companies who have to do that. Know, plans aren't just for new businesses. They're for your yearly plan and they're for launching new products and services. So I'm a big proponent of that. It doesn't mean that you need to get into the weeds and spend, you know, get stuck in this place, but it will provide a path for you

to really figure out how you're gonna get to that sales number or how you're gonna get to that net revenue that you're looking for.

Jim James (34:05)
We'll put a link to Brandon's book in the show notes. Of course, the point about a plan is it changes. When I ran my company in Singapore, we used to have a quarterly strategy session and review whether we were in line with what the plan was, whether we needed to move in some way to different places and different activities. Speaking of different activities, Brandon, when you are not running your businesses and you've got a number of very successful podcasts as well, what do you listen to or read?

Brandon (34:37)
Yeah, the podcast, just because we're on your podcast and the UnNoticed Entrepreneur and people here are all business people, I like how I built this, which is it doesn't go into the detail that you do as it relates to these specific tips necessarily and formulas, but it tells stories of entrepreneurs, some well-known brands that you know of that really, I think for a lot of us and me,

you know, continue to give motivation and to say, hey, look, you know, when you're in the trenches, especially as an UnNoticed entrepreneur trying to be noticed, you know, it can be discouraging. And you sort of feel out there alone on an island and shows like how I built this, which document these big brands. And you realize that they also started in their living room. And I think that just helps,

helps keep your spirits up and probably give you some ideas on what you could do in your business.

Jim James (35:41)
That's wonderful. That's the how I built this by Guy Raz, isn't it? So that's fantastic. People will want to know more about you and your 3rd brain offering sounds, well, literally transformative. And I can completely see the value in having you and your team coming in. If you want to get a hold of you, how can they do that?

Brandon (36:02)
I think the best way is just go to my personal website, BrandonCWhite.com. My email is there. It's my personal email on there, and I answer it, and it's me. And then we can take it from there. If you want to check out 3rd Brain directly, you can just go to the number 3rdbrain.co. I know you put it in the show notes, so people can check that out as well.

Jim James (36:25)
And you will get a response from Brandon. It will not be an AI response. go, he has not automated that part of his life. Brandon, thank you so much for joining me. And I know we went into the details, but your five levels of automation for me, that brings such clarity because I've been wondering, you know, where to start and where to stop. And you've really helped me to understand what is a journey of automation rather than piecemeal automation, I'm sure

that my fellow UnNoticed entrepreneurs will take that away and find that really, really helpful. And also reassuring because it now gives us a guide to where to start, get in place, where do they move to next place. So Brandon C. White, thank you for joining me today on the Unnoticed Entrepreneur Show.

Brandon (37:09)
Thanks for having me, Jim. I really appreciate it. It was fun.

Jim James (37:11)
It's been fun and it's been just, I'm a little bit geeky. I'm doing automations on my own business. And so I really appreciate that we can have you on the show. And for anybody else that's enjoyed this, please do share it with a fellow UnNoticed entrepreneur. A lot of very practical information because the, how I built this is great, but I like to really know, you know, the details. And I think what we need as entrepreneurs is practical advice that's actionable and that is not expensive,

and that you can go away and put in place in your business. So if you've enjoyed it, do please review it and share it with another UnNoticed entrepreneur. Until we meet again, I just encourage you to keep on communicating.