Turn Text Into Talking Gold

Are you losing potential customers because your website content is text-only? In this episode, Ron Jaworski, co-founder and CEO of Trinity Audio, reveals how businesses can transform their written content into engaging audio experiences. From his "eureka moment" in 2017 whilst trying to listen to an article in his car, Ron developed a solution that now serves Fortune magazine and thousands of other clients.

Discover how adding audio players to your website can triple visitor engagement time, boost SEO rankings, and reach the 30% of users who prefer consuming content through audio. Ron shares valuable insights about building a brand through education, leveraging client platforms for organic growth, and maintaining perspective during entrepreneurial ups and downs.

Learn how Trinity Audio's plug-and-play solution, supporting over 140 languages and 600 voices, is making the internet more accessible whilst helping businesses engage audiences in new ways.

Recommended by Ron: Book: "Siddhartha" by Hermann Hesse Podcasts: Huberman Lab and Diary of a CEO

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Chapters

• 24:45 [Ad] Everyday AI: Your daily guide to grown with Generative AI
• 25:32 (Cont.) Turn Text Into Talking Gold

Transcript

Jim James (00:00)
Did you know that if you're just relying on text on your website, you could be losing up to 30% of your potential customers. And it's not just about doing podcasts. If you've got long form content, articles or blog posts, there's actually a way that you can have real time audio players embedded on your website. How do I know this? Because I've done it. I was looking at my blog posts,

and I was going to read them and I thought, this is getting a bit boring and monotonous for people listening to me. And I found Trinity Player from Trinity Audio. And we're very, very blessed because I followed the breadcrumbs back to the founder, Ron Jaworski, who's joining us today from Tel Aviv. Ron, welcome to the show.

Ron Jaworski (00:49)
Thank you very much, super glad to be here.

Jim James (00:52)
Well, you know, I think that what you're doing is amazing because you're enabling entrepreneurs like me to have real time audio played out against text that we've written. So it's just liberating a lot of the content that most of us have already produced on our websites. Really, you've got a free embeddable player, but also very, very low cost. So we're going to talk about Trinity Audio, the role that audio plays. And we're also going to deal with the thorny issue of

AI and voice cloning. And as an entrepreneur based in Israel, we're also going to talk about how you've managed to get clients which include many of the world's largest newspaper groups, which is actually how I first saw Trinity Audio. So Ron, introduce us to you and then introduce Trinity Audio, if you wouldn't mind.

Ron Jaworski (01:44)
And so first of all, thank you very much for the kind words and everything. So my name is Ron Jaworski. I'm married to Ibalo. This is my wife's name and I have three kids, a dog and a cat. And as you said, we live here in Tel Aviv.

I'm the co-founder and the CEO of Trinity Audio. Prior to that, I had another company that was active in the Atex space, which was called Meme Global, mainly focused on the video side of things. The Trinity Audio story, the fairy tale story starts with a need. I was reading an article in the elevator, got into my car, it

was 2017 and I thought to myself, doesn't make sense that I don't have a simple solution where I can just press play and listen to the article. And this was the eureka moment of Trinity Audio and this is how it started. I think like many other stories of many other companies where the founder had a problem that he wanted to fix and then understood that there are a lot of other people that might be interested in the same solution.

Jim James (03:05)
Yeah, you're absolutely right. When was this then Ron? When did you start the business?

Ron Jaworski (03:10)
2017 was the where this is when the event took place. We actually went live with our first publication in Q2 2018. And at the beginning, we had a lot of drawing and thoughts about how we're going to do it. Not only on the technical level, but also on the business level, because as I mentioned earlier, I come from ad tech. This is what

what I've done for years, advertising, publication, users, or consumers of content. So we tried to understand what would be the best manner to offer it. It was clear for us from the start that publication need to have this type of solution on the webpage for everybody, basically everybody, not only publication, but publication was the obvious first use case for us. And by the way, the reason it's called Trinity is that,

we believe that within the worldwide web and it's growing in years, you need to have value within these vast ecosystems of website and content creators and advertisers, users and all of that. And we said that if you bring value for the three pillars of the internet as we see it, advertisers, publishers and users, you check all the boxes,

then you are valuable to the ecosystem and then basically you can be a part of the ecosystem. Hence the holy trinity of the internet and trinity audio. So that's one thing. Of course we have jokes from time to time that people said that a couple of Jewish guys decided to have a Catholic name for their startup, which is also great.

Jim James (04:56)
I thought it was coming from the Matrix because the heroin is called Trinity. That's where I thought it came from. But you're right, holy Trinity. And I can see, that you've got those organizations that are kind of text heavy. So you've got accounting firms, you've got newspapers and so on. Just explain for people that still maybe haven't quite visualized this, what's happening

to the for the user to just help us to understand. And then for those people that want to go to my YouTube, they can see also the screen show that's at Jimmy James is the YouTube. Just just explain run the user experience if you can please.

Ron Jaworski (05:40)
So I think a few things. First of all, and you actually mentioned it at the beginning, 30% of the users are auditory, meaning that they consume content, or at least their memory can categorize the content that they are consuming in a better way if they consume it in an audio form. Just in general, there is somewhere between 40 to 50% which is reading,

30% auditory and then 20% and it are both either auditory or textual. So the first thing that we need to understand is that we are wired to consume audio, a lot of us. So that's the first thing. The second thing is that we are getting busier and busier on one hand, we wanna be more efficient or lazy, you can choose whatever word that you want and audio definitely offers that. It's like when your eyes are busy or you're just tired.

Jim James (06:30)
Yeah.

Ron Jaworski (06:38)
And I'm not talking about the accessibility aspect of it, which is also super important, but at the end of the day, most of the people are there want to be super efficient, super lazy. So for them listening to something instead of reading, it's, it's, it's an easy choice. Let's call it like that. And, and that's, that's what we are trying to provide to the internet in large. Our mission in life is to modify the internet, any textual content, by the way, it doesn't really matter if it's, as you said, content firm publication.

It could be a small blog of somebody that talk about cooking or his favorite soccer team or whatnot. All of them are content creators. And if you want more engagement with your content, you have to offer your content in more manner than one. So we started with text, of course, everybody, we have newspaper, but also the digital landscape started with text, then we added video, and now it's the Renaissance of audio.

We see it in podcasts, see it in tools like Trinity Audio is offering. And we also saw it with some social network that were also audio oriented. So I think we are in a time where in the last five years, there is a huge renaissance of audio. And due to that, and I think that's also super important for all the content creators that are listening right now. And doesn't really matter if you're a CEO of a startup, you are a content creator.

If you're a company, you're a company, why? Because this is your marketing tool to bring more clients. So we need to understand that users, clients, everyone, people are reading less and listening more. And this is what we are trying to do. We try to cater for the needs of those who wants to listen.

Jim James (08:26)
Right, I think that's amazing. And also having tried the product, you have a free trial, which I've embedded onto my blog at theacademy@theunnoticed.cc . So you have a free trial of five, I think articles. So recommend everyone tries that it's Trinityaudio.AI And what you do is you basically get yourself an account and you put in the URL where the article

is appearing if I'm not mistaken. And then you embed the player into your website, really easy, just with a little bit of an iframe. And then people can click to listen, in my case, to the article that I've written on my blog, or to listen to it, or to read it, or both. So what we're also doing is really helping those people that, as you say, maybe prefer audible.

But also there are those people that don't have the choice, right? For example, people that may be visually impaired as we've got older and older generations, or those people selling products and services to people that have disabilities, opening up the audio content is really liberating, Ron, as well, isn't it?

Ron Jaworski (09:43)
100% 100%

Jim James (09:44)
Yeah. So we've got a couple of things going on. One is that the reason I wanted Ron to come on is because for those of us that have got content on our websites and as Ron said, really, we all have content on our websites now because inbound marketing is actually the solution to sort of winning the Google game. But if it's all text, no one's got the time or they've got to be on their phone or on the desktop

with Trinity Audio, you can do is then make that content audible, quite literally, so people could open the website and listen when they're driving, as Ron was wanting to do, or traveling in some way on a plane and so on. So that's brilliant. Ron, in terms of the kind of scalability of Trinity Audio, if someone has got a lot of content on their website,

and they maybe want to start to compile that in some way. The risk of getting too geeky. Just tell us what's the path, because I've just got like five players on five articles. If I wanted to then scale that across all of my content, how would I do that?

Ron Jaworski (10:53)
And so I just want to mention something that is related to what you said previously, and I think it's important, people need to understand that audio stands for new time throughout the day where you can consume content. And I think that's one of the magic about audio. So that's the thought that I wanted to share. So in regards to your question, so first of all, of course, we have two business models in Infinity Audio, one which is

Jim James (11:11)
Yes.

Ron Jaworski (11:23)
pure SaaS. In regard to scale, there's no issue. We are working, I give you an example, working with Fortune magazine that publish hundreds of hundreds of different articles on a monthly basis are working with WatBed, which is a literature, a website with millions of stories. So in regard to scale, we have no problem with scale. It's just a matter of deciding on the business model and then decide on the pricing. So as you can see, the pricing is quite state

straightforward. have annually, have monthly, like any other SaaS solution. You can choose based on the amount of articles that you are generating on a monthly basis. You can choose if you have several domains. Also, that's another thing that you can take under consideration. Of course, if you have a large archive of content, maybe you're posting only 10 articles on a monthly basis, but you exist since 1990, so you have

thousands of articles. That's also something that we can handle with custom packaging and things like that. I would say that the way we envision it, and as I said earlier, our mission is to modify the internet. We believe that our component should be on every website to have the option to consume in an audio form. In regards to the integration, integration is the same

and just changing for packages. For example, for you, if you would just change the package, it will be available on all of your website and this is it. It's quite simple, quite straightforward, and I guess as you mentioned, integration was quite easy. I guess we are up to what we promised.

Jim James (13:02)
Yeah. I think that's, I think Ron, that's really why I was excited to have you on the show because with Trinity Audio, it really is a plug and play. You know, you know, me, for anyone that's listening, I will be as honest as I can about the ease of use of technology. But also you, you don't have a credit card requirement to start with. So it really comes across for the user as your mission to order the internet, which I think is great, by the way,

is a genuine one, right? And then you've got 56 supported languages. So that's great if people are working across domains, geographies and so on. So that's perfect. And what you also have at the moment, which I liked, was you currently offer AI voices run. I like that just because it creates some diversity. I think, you know, for the user experience, I have a podcast and then we have the written and people may

probably are getting tired of my voice, but it gives people the opportunity to engage in my content with a, with, if you like, a different personality sharing the content. Ron, what's your view from where you're sitting? Should people be using clone voices? Should they be using AI voices? What, what do you think is best?

Ron Jaworski (14:23)
That's a great question. I want to say that I think for the first stage, use the AI voices that are in the market. If you choose 20 audio, of course, there are many different voices. I'll just correct you. We support a little bit more than 140 different languages and a bit more than 600 different voices. So for example, of course, for English, you have many, many different accents and you can also choose gender,

a female, male, voices as well. So for the first stage, I would definitely suggest using AI voice that are in our library sort of speak. But dependent on two items, I would definitely move to AI voice cloning. First thing is how is your voice? If your voice is appealing, I will definitely clone it. If you know that your voice is not the one that

everybody like to listen to, for example. I don't think that's my mother, for example, need to clone her voice in AI. It won't be a great experience.

Jim James (15:30)
Let's hope she's not listening to the show. I'll edit that bit out, Okay.

Ron Jaworski (15:35)
No, that's fine. I already told her that's But again, maybe it's my personal experience also. But if you have a relevant voice and again, the content is relevant to be consuming a more, I would say, personal touch that is related. For example, we work with government websites. Okay. So I'm not sure that I will

suggest the supervisor of the Israeli IRS or something like that to record his own voice when he's talking about, I don't know, taxation or something like that, some article about taxation. But definitely if you are a journalist, that people consume your content regularly, the connection for the readers, for the listener, at the end of the day when he's listening, whether to the AI voice of you, the journalist, the connection is closer.

It's obvious. We are emotionally more connected to voices that we are familiar with or with people that we are familiar with. And that's a greater connection. That connection will increase engagement, which is at the end of the day what you're looking for to generate. That's what I've, and I think it's similar to, for example, for your blog post. They know you, they listen to the podcast, and they consume the content. So having the same,

a audio experience with your AI voice over your blog post, that would be amazing. Again, it's costly. It's not something that you will see the pricing on the website, you need to contact us. There is a recording. Some work needs to be done. Not much, but still some.

Jim James (17:20)
Okay, so I think a couple of things in there, Ron. One is that we've got the importance of engagement, that if you want to engage with your audience, you want your own voice. But in some circumstances, engagement may be less important than information, for example, like tax, right? And especially when it's in like public information services, bulletins, or for example, banking or somewhere, in a way you want to, is it anonymize it? De-anonymize it?

You want to make it less sort of identifiable to one person and to be the organization speaking, at which point using the AI clone voice is more than adequate. And I think also what I found is that the voices that you've got on Trinity Audio, they're really nice. They're warm. And I think also what I was impressed by was that they articulate the sentences with tonality.

And cadence, which means that then I don't have to worry about people turning off and thinking this is actually a dull rendition by AI. Actually was, it was very listenable, which ultimately is what, what really matters, isn't it? Is that the content is something that someone will listen to or not. And my young people, you know, I've got a 14 and a 16 year old, they are so used to consuming content that's read to them with AI voices

that I think for them now it's transparent, whether it's the individual or an AI, it's quite interesting. Yeah. Well, that audio to your ears, audio to your ears. So Ron Jaworski, the founder, co-founder of Trinity Audio, you've built this amazing platform, which I say I've already integrated and I really like, which is why I wanted to have you on the show. Let's just also talk about you as an

Ron Jaworski (18:56)
Music to my ears, thank you. Should I say audio to my ears maybe?

Jim James (19:17)
entrepreneur, that you've been building this company now for, I think you said six or seven years, you've got literally thousands of clients, a relatively small team of 13 or so, 15. So you're managing to get that really nice leverage going on. Have you managed to build the brand of Trinity Audio other than people like me sort of following

following you, tracked you down from the article on Fortune actually, and followed the link to you and then to the website. But how are you getting noticed other than the of the sleuth podcaster?

Ron Jaworski (19:57)
And so I think I think that to me, two main things that help a grow 20 audio as a brand. We do the usual marketing stuff. You we have our newsletter, we go on LinkedIn and and you know, social in general. That's that's quite like that. We go to conferences. But but I think the main thing was the fact that we

we understood from the start that we need to educate people. So every call, if it's a large client or small client, doesn't really matter for us, we'll take the call because we want the word to spread. Remember 2018 when we started it. I actually have a story. When I thought about the idea in 2017, I went to a publishing

conference a few months later in Vail, Colorado. I showed some publication an example of what I want to do. I was the player was less slick than what we have now. And when you click on play, you listen to the article and things like that. Most of the people looked at me like the strange guy in the room and didn't understand. So I understood. It was obvious to me that this solution need to be on each and every website across the globe. And the way to do that is to start educate.

We start really to educate a lot of the brands, mainly publication about why it's important, why people need to listen, why people enjoy listening, how it will help them in engagement, how it will help them with monetization. Actually, I didn't mention it earlier, but for publication, large publication, they have a lot of content, but also a lot of traffic. You can actually monetize the traffic and the solution will be for free or for a small cost. Because we use ads, embed ads within the consumer of the content.

So that's one thing that was super important for us. The second thing, which is related to the first one, is that we understood that actually the publication that's going to use us, that we are now educating for them, that's the best marketing dollars that we can invest because as you mentioned, you went to the website, you read, you listened, sorry, to the article, you enjoyed the experience and below that, there was the Powered by Trinity Audio. I said, like what they are doing. I want to contact them,

so I would say those are the two main items. Understand the target audience. And in our case, we needed to educate them. So that was one of the mission that we set, which is hard. Everybody told me, don't do it. Education is a mess. It will take you longer than you ever expected. But we believe that this is the right solution. So we brought to the market. And then use those clients, those publications, those partners as basically our

our marketing budget, so to speak, saying, look, this is our solution, here we are. So hope that answering the question.

Jim James (22:57)
Yeah, so education, as you say, and going to Vail, Colorado, there are worse places to experience rejection. I would say to me, you know, having been to Vail, I mean, there are, you could have been somewhere lot less glamorous. You pick your places to fail with some skill there, Ron. So you've managed to get your name on the player and the genius there

Ron Jaworski (23:05)
hahahahah

Yeah.

You

Jim James (23:27)
is that you've done that, right? That you've managed to retain your brand identity on those players and that no one tried to remove the branding. I think that that's, yeah, but I think that, but as an entrepreneur to think of

Ron Jaworski (23:39)
are trying from time to time, but we have differences.

Jim James (23:50)
the fact that your client will be displaying your product. Lumen5 does this as well. I have Michael Cheng on the show and Lumen5 enables you to add text and you can create video from the text. It's very powerful. But they have as an end frame powered by Lumen5, unless you paid upgrade. So he has over a million subscribers, many of whom are promoting Lumen5 because they make videos

with an end frame. So this idea that you're giving value and that the consumers can see the value and come and find you is, I think, a really wonderful, wonderful method. Ron, if there's a, if you like, a mistake maybe or a learning in the eight or so years of building Trinity Audio from a marketing perspective, what would that be?

Ron Jaworski (24:51)
And I think that one of my mistakes was a little bit when I used a black or white strategy in regard to what works for marketing and what's not. If you send a newsletter for two, three times and nobody replied, then it means it doesn't work. Or on the other way around, if you did some campaign on LinkedIn, which worked magnificently,

then now it will work forever. It's never the case. It's never the case. And we need to look at small improvements. I would say that especially with marketing, it's small improvement. Try to understand where did you, is your SEO a bit better right now? Do you get a little bit more inbound? Are there are a bit more replies to your outbound attempts? You will in most cases, you will never

reach a solution that will snap of fingers. Wow, amazing. I have thousands of clients on a daily basis. Everybody's paying. There's no issue with billing. So I think we need to look at small changes, especially in marketing, to drive our company forward.

Jim James (26:05)
You know, the idea of incremental change and incremental improvements is really a good one because reassuring as well, isn't it? That you won't find one thing that makes the wholesale change, that it is the incremental moments. But I found, for example, like putting Trinity Audio into my blog posts. That for me was like a whole quantum growth. That's a whole new category of content consumption.

So I think we can look for those moments like Trinity Audio being put onto a website that can take our content to the next level. So lots of incremental, but every now and again, sort of a quantum change is probably the term I'm looking for, Ron, which is what you're bringing to anyone with a lot of text on their websites.

Ron Jaworski (26:55)
Look, think that you mentioned it correctly and I think that it's not only that. For example, due to the fact that you have audio people who will stay and listen, if they will stay and listen, in most cases, by the way, we see it a lot do a lot of the, check the average time spent on site with similar web and then we look at our system and see how long user stays. In most cases, X3, X4, X5. So you're not only giving them the option, they are engaging more, they stay longer on the website. And that caused another effect.

Because if people are staying longer, Google likes that and it improves your SEO. And by the way, they like rich media, is audio is also rich media. It does also improve. So then all of those. And then, know, if you play on that, you use an other link and you start to roll the ball, you know, at the end of the day, you have successful company. But never try to find any one solution that will solve everything. That's a 99.9% would be a failure.

Jim James (27:53)
Well, that's a bit of shame you've mentioned that club is going to sell a ticket to an event which was called the one thing you need, Ron, for success. Now, but now you've blown that webinar idea out of the water, Ron Jaworski. I'm going to send you the invoice for the loss of income on that one.

Ron Jaworski (28:02)
Yeah.

I have a tip that I can give you as the one thing that you need to consider.

Jim James (28:16)
Ha ha ha ha ha.

Okay, well, I'm going to ask you, because you know, my next question is going to be your number one tip as an entrepreneur, what would you recommend?

Ron Jaworski (28:27)
I would say every entrepreneur or somebody that is considering to become an entrepreneur, need to consider that it's a roller coaster. It's a roller coaster of up and downs, of lows and highs. And what I'm trying to say to myself in the high or the lows and respectively, you are not that smart, that bright as you think you are, and you are not that dumb

stupid as you think you are. And this is a lot of entrepreneurs says that, when they're on the high, they sure that this is it. They conquered the world. Then a quarter later or a year later, something bad happened. Then they looked at themselves says, my God, I can't believe I didn't see it. Why didn't act accordingly? I'm not worthy of becoming a founder or CEO or thing like that. And we need to remember we are never as bright or as dumb as we think we are. We are somewhere in the middle, maybe a little bit more than others because we took

one step forward to becoming entrepreneurs, at the end of the day, that's my tip for everyone.

Jim James (29:28)
Okay, so roll with the punches a little bit then Ron and enjoy the moments when you're on a high, right? I think that's also, think to make sure you do celebrate the moments when you're winning. Ron Jaworski, co-founder of Trinity Audio, what would be a book or a podcast that you would like to share that you find inspiring and that may be one that you've actually read or is it a book that you've then listened to on Trinity?

Ron Jaworski (29:37)
celebrate the win.

Okay, so I'll give one book and one podcast. The podcast, actually two podcasts that I love is Huberman's Lab. I love it. I love the fact that you can program your body and your mind to become better. And by the way, another one that is actually a bit similar to that is the diaries of the CEO, the OAC, which is also a great one. I really like, I really enjoy it.

The conversation that they have. That's that's in the podcast. In regard to a book, I wouldn't go for a business book. There is a book by Herman Hesse called Siddharta . We talk about it's a little bit the story be similar to the story of the Buddha about a rich guy that goes around the world at the end of the day found peace

and happiness in the simple things in life. And I think that's a message to our soul about the importance of family and friends. It's great to bring a solution to people and see them using enjoy it and even grow it. But I think at the end of the day, the simple things are the ones that are making us happy, that they look within and not without

and not out and family and friends. This is what I like about this specific book because it turns you back to main things, to earth, to those type of things.

Jim James (31:29)
Wonderful. So that's Siddhartha, isn't it? The Buddha and the Buddhist way, which is a wonderful book for you to share, especially as an entrepreneur, we have these ups and downs and the Buddhist philosophy suggests that we have the ups and downs as temporal moments and that we've always got our own being as the permanent that transcends all those ups and downs, right, Ron?

Ron Jaworski (31:54)
So true. As somebody that practiced Buddhism and do a lot of meditation, I couldn't agree more.

Jim James (32:01)
If people want to agree with you or disagree with you Ron, how can they find you?

Ron Jaworski (32:06)
So I think the best way is LinkedIn, course, Ron Jaworski at LinkedIn. I'm quite accessible through that platform. I think that's definitely the number one social. And of course, you can reach out to ron@trinityaudio.ai This is my email. both manners are acceptable. And of course, if you are in Tel Aviv, we can meet for coffee. Everyone, there's great coffee in Tel Aviv.

Jim James (32:34)
You live a bad life, Vale, Tel Aviv. I'm not feeling any sympathy for your down moments, Ron. Ron, thank you for joining me. Ron, it's a pleasure to meet the men that's helped create something that I've personally found so beneficial. Thank you for coming on the show today.

Ron Jaworski (32:36)
you

Yeah

You shouldn't.

Thank you very much for having me. I really enjoyed this conversation.

Jim James (33:02)
Me too. So we've been listening to Ron Jaworski, who is the co-founder and CEO of a company called Trinity Audio. And that's as in the Holy Trinity, not the heroine from The Matrix. And you've been listening to me and I think a couple of things. One is an innovation that gets spread through education is perhaps one of the key messages here. And also that rather smart leading your logo on the product so that people can find it and find you

when they've consumed it. And that would be a way of really getting organic natural growth without any budget. And as you know, I'm a big fan of building a brand on a shoestring budget. So thank you for listening to me, Jim James, on this episode of the UnNoticed Entrepreneur. If you've enjoyed it, do please share it with a fellow UnNoticed Entrepreneur and leave a review if you can, because it really helps me to know what you think of the show. And until we meet again, I just encourage you to keep on communicating.