Authentic Communication Secrets For Business Growth

In this insightful episode, communication specialist Mike Lane-Evans reveals how entrepreneurs can bridge the gap between their current achievements and desired success through authentic communication. Drawing from his experience as both an actor and business coach, Mike shares valuable insights on building genuine connections with audiences, whether in presentations, pitches, or everyday business interactions. He emphasises the importance of aligning personal authenticity with business communication strategies, particularly for scaling companies. This episode is essential listening for business owners seeking to enhance their leadership presence and company growth through effective communication.

Key Timestamps: 
00:00 - Introduction and the 83% achievement gap 
03:35 - The river metaphor and identifying goals 
09:57 - Communication as company DNA 
14:46 - Authenticity in business communication 
18:50 - Building confidence through service 
24:16 - Mastering podcast communication 
29:44 - Top communication tip for entrepreneurs

#BusinessCommunication #EntrepreneurialGrowth #AuthenticLeadership #BusinessCoaching

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Chapters

• 9:55 [Ad] Everyday AI: Your daily guide to grown with Generative AI
• 10:42 (Cont.) Authentic Communication Secrets For Business Growth

Transcript

Jim James (00:00)
Are you one of the 83% of people who feel separated from what they believe they should be accomplishing and what they actually are accomplishing? You might be one of many people, including me, who have tried the miracle mornings, we've tried the strategy, we've tried the scaling up, we've tried everything, and yet we're still not crossing the divide from where we are now to where we want to be. Well, my guest today, I think, has got quite possibly the answer.

We're talking to Mike Lane Evans at Forefront Coaching, based in sunny Manchester, actually over here in the UK. So it's a delight to have another Brit on the podcast. And actually I went to Manchester University. So very happy memories of living up north in Manchester. Mike Lane Evans, welcome to the show.

Mike Lane-Evans (00:44)
Thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me, Jim.

Jim James (00:47)
My pleasure because anyone that writes saying that 83% of the population are not achieving and that you might have the answer must come on the show. Mike, what are most of us not doing right and what could you help us to fix?

Mike Lane-Evans (00:52)
Thank

Yeah, well, think firstly to say at the start of it all, I don't believe in gold standards. So there are lots of tools and techniques and you know, even before we joined this call, Jim was wisely talking about how we can use our octaves higher and lower and how much that can really impact people. And that's something we can dive more into and it really does impact people. However, it can also sometimes cause a disingenuousness.

So Elizabeth Holmes, anyone who doesn't know that story, managed to raise hundreds of millions of dollars when there was no real product that she actually, there was no viable product, didn't exist. And one of the things that she did to succeed was to lower the tone of her voice. And whilst it worked in the short term of building some credibility, it didn't actually go on to help people trust her long-term. It was just a quick win.

And so the biggest thing, and it sounds easy to say, is being genuinely who you are working with, what you bring to the table and then scaling up from that, improving those skills rather than looking to other podcasts or Ted talks and thinking, I'm just want to copy. I want to be just like Jim. want to just copy and do exactly that because then at some point you're just morphing into somebody else. And that individuality is really what we need. And so,

that 83%, a lot of people have this feeling of not being achieving what they want to achieve. And a lot of that comes down to communication with the people that they're speaking with. Also, it comes down to communication with themselves, finding out first, what are those things that they want to achieve, being clear on that. So then we can strategize, as you've already mentioned, like in how to go and achieve it.

Jim James (03:01)
Mike. Well, that's wonderful. By the way, I don't think anybody looks at me and goes, they want to be like me. I think we can let's dispel any rumors or myths there might be about wanting to be an aging podcast host. Mike, where do you start with helping people then to get close or really to be in alignment between their authentic self and to feel comfortable in themselves? Because that's the first

Mike Lane-Evans (03:06)
Yeah.

Jim James (03:32)
step from what you're saying.

Mike Lane-Evans (03:35)
Yeah. And in coaching, we have this image, which, talking about on a podcast means I have to kind of, sort of give some ideas where we usually allow people to find it, but there's basically a river or no man's land. Other people can see it as this. It's not there on the website, but this, this, this cousin, which you mentioned already this from where they are now to where they want to be. And the first thing to explore for yourself is,

what does the other side of the river or the no man's land look like? What does a day look like? If I'm waking up in the morning, going through the day, going through the night, going to bed at night, what do I want to be doing? And what do want to feel during that time? And it sounds really simple and we do a lot of exercises and processes, but for a lot of people, it's something that they've never done for themselves. And there can be some really huge surprising moments for a of people.

Just in that simple process to start. That's step one, if you will. Because a lot of times people will find themselves are in a job that isn't achieving the thing that they want to have on the other side of the river. It might in fact just be the entire industry that they're in. It might be that the things that they're doing on a day-to-day basis are not the things that actually bring them joy going forward. Maybe it did for 10 years and then it's okay to change. yeah, a lot of people

find it very, difficult to change, to kind of take that leap of faith. And so what we do is we help people once they've figured that out, which we do together. Coaching is very much about guiding rather than leading. So rather than telling people, hey, do this, try this, go there, at first we're helping people to understand where they want to be, encouraging them to go on that journey, and then we can bring in communication tips and tools

to help you get to where you need to be.

Jim James (05:36)
Okay, so there's a great metaphor that you're on one side of the river and then you've got to get across the river. And of course that probably means getting a little bit wet along the way, doesn't it Mike? You know, you've got to, or unless you find a bridge of course. And presumably the coaching, if I follow on with that metaphor, the bridge is like the coaching, right? That's helping people get across to the other side. Mike, in your own experience,

Mike Lane-Evans (05:47)
This is a question.

Yeah.

Jim James (06:04)
sorry, I was going to say what led you to doing

Mike Lane-Evans (06:05)
I'm sorry, that's my

Jim James (06:10)
We had a bit of a delay on the sound there on the video, did we? With the coaching and the bridging across to the other side, when you get people to then get, if you like, in alignment between who they are and what they believe they can do, what role then does communication play? Because we often think of communication, especially in companies, we think of communication as being PR,

advertising, it's kind of how we dress up what the company is doing. But it's rarely seen as, if you like, the fundamental part of the DNA of the company.

Mike Lane-Evans (06:51)
Yeah, for us communication is part of the DNA. It's a pillar of success in a company. Because if you do, with PR, there's lots of really good PR out there by the way, but one of the things that can happen with PR or with marketing is we're just thinking I need to make more sales.

How can I make more sales? You know, it's going and targeting those things. The people that are really good in marketing and really good in PR are considering what pain points are we solving? What, what issues, who are the ideal customer profiles? Who are the people that we were doing really supports, really helps in some way. It's not nice to have. It's a real huge life-changing thing for them.

And so those people who are really good go and they figure all of that stuff out. So you're kind of working from inside out. It's the Simon Sinek idea of the circles for those who are not familiar, know, lots of companies have thought about what do they want to do and how do they want to do it. But those really successful ones have thought about why do they want to do it and figuring it out that sort of inside out philosophy. And if you can understand your audience in that way,

then you need to understand how to connect with them, how to communicate with them, because you need to incentivize them to buy if we're ruthless about it. More importantly than that, though, you want to stay with those customers for a long time. So you want to figure out what do they really need. So Apple is an example of this. instead of making computers the way that computers have been made, they figured out what did people need in a computer and then they went and made that.

And then they have a cult effectively for decades, probably still do, because of people that just really felt seen and heard by something that they were using all day, every day. And with any business, if you can tap into that, then you'll be more successful. But it's not just about tapping into it for the sake of money. It's

understanding and communicating with those people, not just once or twice for the first product and the 2.0 version, how do you stay connected with them? So they feel a part of the family. So they want to come back. So you get a lot more inbound marketing because they're already a part of the fold. so even in my explanation there, because we're talking about entrepreneurs and we're talking about business is kind of tick boxy, is monetary. Also just beyond that, if we can build those connections.

with people, you never know when stuff's gonna come back, when someone's gonna come back in three years and want your service, or someone's gonna become really successful and recommend you to a ginormous company that they just joined. So that communication all along the way, not just once or twice, but all along the way, will absolutely make or break any company.

Jim James (09:57)
To my get-tellers though, we need as individuals, founders to be in alignment with who we are and what's important, but also then the company that we run needs to be in alignment as well.

Mike Lane-Evans (10:09)
Yeah.

Jim James (10:12)
When we talk about effective communication skills, as you do at Forefront you've got that they're both important for professional and personal settings because there is this alignment, isn't it? If you're the founder, then they're often one and the same. What are some of the hallmarks of effective communicators? We've seen Trump, for example, and this idea that he talks at an average sort of education level of grade fives, which is a little bit worrying. And also that he,

I think he doesn't let any pauses in, he's constantly talking, there's always a movement and whatever he's saying, there's always a filler word and so on. Do you have some guidance for us on what makes effective communicators?

Mike Lane-Evans (10:57)
Well, one of the first thing that you said about Trump doing is something to do, taking jargon out of what you're saying. Well, yes, it's at a grade five level, but some of his audience are reading at a grade five level and speaking at a grade five level. And that is not being judgmental at all. That's, there is an understanding of speaking

to everybody. There's so much in politics which is speaking above, being the educated, looking down on people and saying, listen, you just need us to fix this for you. Just put the X in the box and we'll get on with it. And whether people speak that way or don't intentionally speak that way, that is a lot, a lot, there is a rhetoric in politics around that. There is an understanding and that is that 83% that we're talking about. It's how do you want to come across and how are you actually coming across

can be very, very different. And so taking out the jargon, simplifying the language that you're using makes what you're saying now accessible to 80% of people rather than 20% of people. Don't quote me on that stat. I was gonna say that on a podcast, but my point is it provides much larger access. And those people who have a larger vocabulary are unlikely to be turned off because you're simplifying your language.

They might be turned off for other reasons within the simplification of the language, but not just because you took out some of those jargon words. So that's a huge, huge tool. And then that is just a small part of trying to understand your audience. So there's another thing, if we stick with the Trump example, there's another thing where I've heard and read a number of times that there are certain things that he really promotes that he's actually not that bothered about.

So guns being one of them, actually he really promotes this ideology professionally, where personally he's not particularly that interested, but he's speaking to an audience of people that want to feel seen and heard. And so in politics, that's a hugely successful tool. Now, if it's not followed through on, if it's not genuine in the first place, then that trust gets smashed.

That's a key thing just to say here is that being genuine, being yourself, being truthful all along the way will be hugely important. That sounds like a very religious and high moral ground thing to say, and maybe it's not so easy when you just need to put food on the table as a young business owner, but it's all about telling the positive version of the truth. So we talk about this a lot when we work with founders. Don't lie,

do tell the positive version of the truth because saying, you know what, we, we don't have many sales yet, but you know, we've, we've, we've had some really great conversations with people as the negative version of the truth. Being able to say, set the business up 11 weeks ago and we've already on boarded one large client that is starting to introduce us now to other parties. And we now have a pipeline of 10 huge enterprises that we're onboarding over the next six months. Now,

you, they make some of those may fall by the way sides, they may not end up going through. It doesn't mean that they're actually got letters of intent or they were on board yet, but all of that is true. There was no lie there, but you've got to sell the positive version of what you're talking about. Cause if you don't feel positive about it, how the hell is anybody else going to feel positive about it? And so that is another huge sort of technique I would say in speaking with people.

Jim James (14:46)
Right, interesting. I suppose, one of the challenges that people face when they think about simplification or making things sound simple is that they won't sound as smart. And if you carry on with your Apple analogy, in a way, the smart thing about Apple is that you don't have to be that smart to use it because all the intelligence is on the other side. The technology is transparent to the user, it? So it can be explained in relatively simple terms because the smart

Mike Lane-Evans (15:00)
Yeah.

Jim James (15:16)
part is in the chip, isn't it, in the processor. So that's the beauty of Apple. But with Trump, I'm interested because you talked about his conversation around gun, for example, or even abortion, where he kind of seemed to go from one side to the next. What's your view on authenticity then? Because are you saying that you think he's authentic

because he's talking to the people that want to hear that that's his base. Or what's your interpretation because there is a danger, presumably if you're a founder and you start going down the path of talking about things that you're not necessarily 100% committed to, that you could give people a false impression.

Mike Lane-Evans (16:04)
Yeah. And I think it's really common for founders as well, if I'm honest. I think, you know, I know hundreds of founders that started out as a B2B. They wanted to sell into businesses. They realized how long the sales cycle was. And after a couple of months, we're starting to run out of capital already. And so they had some opportunities with some friends of friends who really needed it. And then suddenly in B2C, now they're not getting rid of the original part of the business,

but now they're doing lots of things at the same time. It's a luxury to say don't do that because you need money, you need capital, as I say you need to be able to put food on the table. However, understanding what does that communicate? What does that communicate? And I'll be really honest with you and say that we've had this issue at Forefront. So we work

for a long, long time, predominantly with founders. So if you go and check out our LinkedIn or our website, there's a lot of talk around founders, individuals, young startups, and we still very much do work with businesses of that size. Then when we've got huge enterprises that we're having conversations with and they're looking at our LinkedIn, they're not necessarily feeling the same level of connection in terms of what we can do. Now, in some cases, we worked with huge enterprises that we just can't talk about

publicly because of the things that we're helping, they don't want that spoken about. Fine. But then that doesn't set this kind of image that we're working with those of enterprises. And so that has a huge, as a communication specialist company, that has a huge communication issue of what that says to other people. So if you are B2B and you spent most of your time focusing on B2C after your first year, 18 months, two years,

that sends a message. Now I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying be very aware of the messaging that sends because otherwise that breakdown in what you want to achieve and what you are achieving will just grow larger and larger.

Jim James (18:11)
So Mike, in your own backstory, you you're an actor for a long time, a successful one. And then you started to suffer from some self-confidence and some issues around, you know, being on stage and getting parts. How did you overcome that, because for many people, the communication is also a function of self-confidence, isn't it? So we talked about authenticity, which is great

Mike Lane-Evans (18:16)
Yeah.

Jim James (18:42)
even sort of deeper than that is people's concern about how they're seen, how they sound. If you could maybe share with us how you overcame that, then maybe that would give some guidance for us.

Mike Lane-Evans (18:50)
Thank

Yeah, so when I first started working as a communication specialist, just under six years ago.

Quite soon in, I had a few people approach me about running sessions on confidence. Just they wanted three sessions just to improve their confidence. And we didn't do it back then and we don't do it now because working on your confidence is something far more holistic. Most people, and I'm not gonna say everybody, but most of our clients leave

sessions on public speaking or sessions on networking or sessions on managing difficult conversations with more confidence in those things. Because apart from anything else, the theory of 10,000 hours, you'd spend 10,000 hours doing something, you become more of an expert. Just, even if you spend two or three hours doing some public speaking practice, that was more than you done last week

and it will build up that confidence level in it. If you're in a safe environment that we provide to make mistakes, to screw up, get it wrong and learn from those. Because if you're just up against it and you have very negative experience that doesn't feel very safe, then you're probably gonna go backwards in terms of your confidence. You're certainly not gonna move forward. So to answer your question around what I did.

One of the things I did was I just realised that if I had a bad day at work as an actor, nobody died. I wasn't a doctor, I wasn't a soldier, and nobody died. And part of the reason I was able to do that was because at the time I was working with the British military as a consultant, and when you go to an acting audition that you don't get, it felt very horrible, not because I was just bad in the audition, which sometimes I was.

But what I was suffering with was this sort of energy suck, this energy sap, where I felt like I couldn't just be myself. And so you're just going through your days exhausted because you just don't feel like you're getting to be yourself or achieve the things that you want to achieve. And then you go into these environments, these quite high pressure military environments, and you need to help these other people succeed. It's not about me anymore. It's about helping them to succeed so that they can go on to do things that

and it really mattered. It just took away some of my own self-importance, if I'm really honest. And so then you can start to, when you worry about it less, when you're overthinking it less, then you can start to play around. So we've already spoken about how to use your voice, how to use your body language. So people may have noticed that I've used my hand gestures quite a lot. That's not because I'm

saying everybody needs to use them as much as Mike. It's because I've always spoken like that. First time I went to Italy, learned, fair, don't test me, I learned quite a bit of Italian the first time I went because they're talking about a chair, they're pointing at the chair. It was a language to me that just made sense because the non-verbal communication was so much a part of it. However, I've got lots of clients who've watched a YouTube video on non-verbal communication and then they are saying,

that we need to do this and they're just trying to copy. It doesn't look comfortable to them. It doesn't feel comfortable to them. It's not going to improve your confidence. So the importance of coaching, and this is not a sales pitch at all, because there's lots of coaches around the world. The importance of coaching is it gives you the opportunity to just try stuff in a safe environment, to practice and play. I'm a really big believer in playing because as adults, we just don't really get to do it very often.

And as children, it's how we improve our intelligence, how we grow. So, so that, that was what happened for me. I had an environment where I was able to go and play, practice, test things out, where it was less about me and more about other people and helping them to succeed. And so then that helped when you then see those levels of success that automatically it's a one plus one equals two situation that makes you

Jim James (22:45)
Mm.

Hmm.

Mike Lane-Evans (23:12)
improving confidence because you can see the success.

Jim James (23:17)
So that's nice, Mike. Sounds as though by being in service to these people in the military and they got success, that gave you more self-confidence. Whereas when you're worried about your own success, it was a little bit of almost an anxiety generator, wasn't it? Because you worry about your own success and when you didn't get it, that even compounded the feelings of failure. So that's a wonderful story. And I think that for all of us that are in business,

the idea that if you serve others and generate success for them, that will give you confidence. But of course, in commercial terms, it means that by and large, they'll continue to be customers. for those, obviously, people are listening to this. if you're watching the YouTube on my channel at Jimmy James, you'll see Mike was moving his arms around, gesticulating, I think, as they call it, speaking like a true Italian. But Mike, as I've got you on the call and

Mike Lane-Evans (24:09)
you

you

Jim James (24:16)
most people are doing podcasts or listening to podcasts just through the audio, 80% of communication is nonverbal. Certainly the majority. What is your guidance to people that would like to be on a podcast on how they can build their sort of engagement with the audience? How do they show their authenticity and their passion when it's audio only, when in effect the other person has got their eyes closed and can't see them?

Mike Lane-Evans (24:27)
Yeah.

There's a few things to say on this. the study that still holds a lot of weight that came from the 1960s about this said that 55% of effective communication was nonverbal, 38% was tone of voice and 7% was the words. And that doesn't mean the words don't matter. The words hugely matter. It just means that once you've nailed down the words, there's another 93% of the way to go.

And I think this experiment needs to be done again. And anybody who's got some spare cash out there, I'd love to conduct this experiment because I think since we spend more of our time online on Zoom, on Google, on Teams, I think there are other factors at play. And when I, because we've got to rely on the current science, even though it's from the sixties, when we talk about this in some of our training, we categorize what is nonverbal communication? What are the things, what are the elements?

And energy is one of the things that we talk about currently as nonverbal communication. However, vocal energy in the tone of voice is hugely something that we can do. But the other thing to say, when I loved what you just said, Jim, was you said they're effectively listening with their eyes closed. Now, many people listen to a podcast whilst cycling or cleaning the house or trying to send emails and they're probably not taking it improperly. But those who do just really

sit and listen to the podcast are effectively doing it with their eyes closed. And what you are doing in that moment is sort of stripping out a sense. And we know that people who are blind or deaf, know, where a sense has gotten, other senses get heightened. And I think the meaning of podcast is still surviving so well after the days of radio kind of becoming less popular as TV came in, because there is just a time that it allows people to be quite mindful

and just focus in on this one, this simple thing. So what can you do with it? Energy is one of those things. The energy that you give at any given point. Now, one of the things that we talk about at Forefront is if you think about energy on a scale of one to 10, so one being the absolute lowest and 10 being the absolute highest, there's not very many times where we want to hear somebody speak at a 10 because

that even if it's not shouting, even if it's just high energy and you're listening to somebody pitch or present or deliver or just tell you a story from their weekend at that level 10, it's a little bit like being shouted at. And I've spoken to hundreds of people about this. Many people have had the experience of being shouted at as a child, either by a parent or a teacher for a period of time that was so continuous that it just stopped having an effect. They weren't scared anymore. They weren't motivated. They didn't

do anything different because it's just white noise and high levels of energy can do the same thing as can what we refer to as monotonous voice, low levels of energy. So by injecting that energy, but also then connecting it to what you're talking about. So if I'm talking to you about something that's really bad and I've got this really high level of energy while I'm talking about how, you know, so many people are struggling to make money at the moment, that's immediately disingenuous. And so another

quick trick that I'll finish on this one is smiling. I have worked a lot as a voiceover artist when I used to be an actor and we talk about smiling in the throat, which I tried to explain to a business client the other day and they looked at me like I was speaking in an alien language. So I'm aware of that for your listeners right now. But if you try speaking to somebody with a big, big smile on your face,

your throat will open more, you will hear that smile in your throat and it will sound happier and more open and more engaged in that moment. But similarly, if I'm doing that smile, this huge, smile on my face while speaking about sad things or bad things, it's a lot of time we can hear that. So that's just one quick thing to play around with how your body actually does influence your tone, even if there isn't video or visual.

Jim James (29:03)
Yeah, Mike, I love that. even the tone of your voice and the depth of the octave of your voice can imply being trustworthy. For example, there's some science about that as well, which is why I like to help people get their microphones and on sorted out because it can really make a difference. All of these little techniques, Mike's giggling because we had a little bit of a pre-record tech talk. Mike Lane Evans, let's ask for a number one tip,

Mike Lane-Evans (29:11)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jim James (29:30)
because obviously you charge people with a small fortune and affordable, good value for your coaching. But as you're on the show, I will press you for one communication tip for me and my fellow UnNoticed Entrepreneurs today.

Mike Lane-Evans (29:44)
I knew this question was coming, so I'm actually gonna, this is gonna sound very simple and it's actually very high value. It's one of the things that we tend not to do with people until they've had three or four sessions with us. The tone of what we've been talking about today, I think it's really important. If you're considering your audience, and I'll just give the example of a presentation. If you've got a written presentation, say it's 10 slides, consider how you want the people you're speaking to to feel

about each one of those slides. How do you want them to feel when you're showing the numbers of what you've achieved as a company versus how do you want them to feel when you're talking about the ways that the workforce, the colleagues are really struggling because of X. They're different when there are highs and when there are lows. And we often spend a lot of time creating the words and even maybe adding the smiles in and adding the Italian hands in that we've spoken about today.

If it's not connected, if it's not genuinely connected to what you're talking about, it won't connect with the people you're speaking to. And if you're not an actor or a voiceover artist or a professional podcaster, just what to do with your voice or what to do with your body can be really overwhelming and intimidating. What you can do is convince your friends to stop working and come out for dinner. You can also say to that same friend, please leave me alone. I've got so much work to do.

And so you know how to speak to a person with intention. If you take that same level of intention to a presentation or a conversation or a pitch, it will have a huge, impact on you.

Jim James (31:25)
Mike Lane Evans, thank you. So talking with authenticity and intention then would that be a fair summary of that? There you go. Guess who's short of time? Book or podcast that you'd recommend?

Mike Lane-Evans (31:33)
Yes, that would be it.

Book, The Culture Map.

So culture map, in fact, if I move my microphone, which Jim will tell me off for doing, I actually have it right here in front so that people can see it. just a really big believer in when knowing your audience, understanding the cultures that come into play within that. And so yeah, can't recommend this enough.

Jim James (32:06)
Mike Lane, and I can't recommend people enough to talk to you. How do they find you, Mike Lane Evans?

Mike Lane-Evans (32:12)
So Jim flicked through the website earlier. If you saw that it's a Forefront - coaching.com. I'm also on LinkedIn and we put out a lot of content on LinkedIn, not just blogs and written pieces, but some video stuff as well. And we try to put as much as we can without asking for anything back because we believe that what we do, the Forefront way can help everybody improve their communication. So if you can't afford the sessions, go get some stuff for free on my LinkedIn.

Jim James (32:43)
That sounds great advice. Mike Lane Evans, thanks for joining me on the show today.

Mike Lane-Evans (32:47)
Thanks for having me,

Jim James (32:50)
I put Mike a little bit on the spot there with some of those questions and he's a past master plainly at both communication, but also interview techniques. He's using podcasting to help build his Forefront coaching business. So if you've enjoyed this, do please reach out to Mike. I'm sure he'd love to hear from you. And if you've enjoyed it, please leave a review. And until we meet again, as think Mike would encourage you to do, keep on communicating.