Sales Pipeline Mastery: B2B Growth Secrets

In this insightful episode, Doug C. Brown, CEO of C.O. Sales Strategies, reveals how entrepreneurs can achieve predictable sales growth through strategic prospecting and metrics-driven approach. Brown shares his remarkable success story from the telecommunications industry, where he generated 62 incoming calls daily and outperformed entire sales teams. He introduces a comprehensive mathematical formula for sales success, emphasising the importance of targeting the right buyers and maintaining consistent follow-up. Perfect for business owners seeking to scale their revenue, this episode delivers actionable insights on building trust-based relationships and positioning yourself effectively in the B2B space.

Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction and sales predictability challenge
01:06 - Master prospector vs master closer concept
03:19 - Real-life telecommunications success story
11:21 - Win-win sales approach
16:34 - Research methodology in modern sales
19:47 - Mathematical formula for sales growth
28:48 - Book recommendation and resources

#B2BSales #SalesStrategy #BusinessGrowth #EntrepreneurSuccess #SalesOptimization

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Chapters

• 16:47 [Ad] Everyday AI: Your daily guide to grown with Generative AI
• 17:34 (Cont.) Sales Pipeline Mastery: B2B Growth Secrets

Transcript

Jim James (00:00)
My guest today says that he has a predictable sales revenue growth strategy for us. Personally, my experience is that predictability and sales are contradictions in terms. So I'm looking forward to finding out what he has to say. This man has a long and lustrous career in business. He's worked with some of the largest names in coaching, but he is joining us today from Nashua in New Hampshire.

I'm joined by Doug C. Brown, is the CEO of a company called C.O. Sales Strategies. Doug, welcome to the show.

Doug C. Brown (00:38)
Hey Jim, thank you. Welcome to everybody and thank you for having me here.

Jim James (00:43)
Doug, you are saying that you can help entrepreneurs like me get a guarantee of sales growth.

Doug C. Brown (00:55)
That's a magic question, right?

Jim James (00:58)
It's the big question that we all face. If

we solve the sales problem, then cash flow comes in and you can solve anything else in my experience.

Doug C. Brown (01:06)
Right. So I'll start off by saying the master prospector will always outsell the master closer. Right. So.

Jim James (01:13)
Do want to clarify

what do you mean by master prospector? Because that's a bit tradecraft language that.

Doug C. Brown (01:19)
Yeah. So the master prospector, if we think about this sales, you know, a lot of times people say sales, you know, they're numbers, right? It's like sales are the sales are in the numbers. Yes and no. So it's in the numbers, but it's really how you apply the math to the numbers. So the master prospector understands how the math works. And so the master prospector will outsell the master closer

because Jim, they're producing high quality sales ready leads. And so they're producing a lot of high quality sales ready leads. And so the master closer, let's say they're producing 10 leads a month and they're closing five of them, 50% close rate. But the master prospectors producing, let's say 20 of them a month.

And closing at say 35% or 30%, right? They're going to outsell the mass for now you might say, well, aren't they working harder? No, they're actually working easier. And I can explain how this works. But the reality is when you're producing very high quality leads, you will have a high close rate anyways. And that's how they work a lot easier. So in, in essence, the master

prospector, if they produce 20 leads, will still close at 50%. And the reason they'll close at 50% is because those leads are highly qualified sales ready leads. So instead of getting five sales a month, you get 10 sales a month. Now, how do you make that predictable? Right? That's always the question.

Jim James (02:51)
So it.

Yeah, so I was going to say

Doug, so just to recap that then, so what we're saying is that when sales is a numbers game, actually it is a quality numbers game, right? It's not just a volume game, it's a value game. Is that a fair way to summarize that?

Doug C. Brown (03:19)
Yeah, it very much is. I'll give you a real life example. When I was in the telecommunications industry, I worked for a corporation and I was the number one rep in the company. Now I will tell you, I knew very little about telecommunications when I first started there. I actually overnighted myself three telecommunications engineering books, read them over a weekend. That's how I learned about telecommunications.

So, I didn't know as much as all the other people knew technically, but I knew some of the terms and how to, you know, finesse my way through a conversation at that point. Right. And so what I did know is how to generate high quality leads. And so I ended up becoming the number one rep in that company, not because I was the greatest closer at that time.

I was the best prospector at the time. So what I did is I would ask questions like who needs this service that other people are serving. And so I would sell long distance, local data, well, telephone salespeople or telephone, what we used to call vendors, people who sold phone systems. Now, if you think about the magic of this, these people have been working with their clients for, you know, sometimes 30 years.

Selling them phone systems. Well, there's high trust built there. So I went to all of these phone vendors, the data vendors, hardware vendors, and I made a deal with them. And I said, if I can get someone to buy a new phone system from you, will you set me up this way and bring me into your account? And they said, yes. Now I was getting over a 70% close ratio on these leads. So,

what did I do? I started building relationships with all these things, Jim. And then at the height, I was having 62 incoming calls a day from clientele. I had to hire multiple assistants to handle all the volume. I was out selling myself. We had teams of nine. I was out selling some months, five, one month I sold six teams of nine combined.

Jim James (05:41)
But

Doug, that sounds just insane. So again, you've prospected companies in this particular case, was B2B sales, right? So you've identified that they've really got a need. Beyond the need, presumably they have been targeted by other companies selling similar products. What did you do then to, if I move to the front of the queue, I mean, I know that

there must be some techniques and Doug, by the way, has a background in music, but also has a degree in nuclear science. So he's got a combination of skills there. I'm just wondering, what did you do to move yourself to the front of the queue and to the top of the page?

Doug C. Brown (06:13)
you

So to answer the question, positioning and alignment in sales is critical. So if I said to you, most of us in the world know, say Oprah Winfrey, right? Or, know, and I said, you know, you're looking for personal development, or a little bit of business help. I can introduce you to Oprah Winfrey.

Oprah Winfrey, you're not going to question her pedigree or her credibility, right? Because she's well positioned. Right? I mean, if we said, you know, Tony Robbins, or we said, anybody who's, you know, worldwide known, who's not, even if they're controversial, like even like our president now, Donald Trump, he's, you know, controversial, but people know him, there's a positioning there. Like him, love him, whatever. It's, he's got great positioning.

What I did is I built positioning through the trust of these people who have been working. I mean, imagine if your doctor made a referral to you. You wouldn't question your doctor's referral in most cases if you respected that doctor, right? So these vendors of these equipment have been taking care of these companies for decades.

Jim James (07:39)
Yeah, absolutely.

Doug C. Brown (07:47)
They've had family generations that have been taking care of those. So when they brought me in, I was an extension of that. And so what all I had to do is show a business return on investment or a personal return on investment or both, because that's what people buy off of. What are my tangible benefits? What are my intangible benefits? And so I would go and literally say something like, you're looking to buy new equipment. Yes. Okay.

If I took your phone bill that you're now spending $10,000 a month and I dropped that down to $6,000 a month, you have $4,000 a month that you basically now have in profit because you're spending this out and all that money goes right to your bank account. Is that correct? Yes. Would you be willing if I could do that to take a thousand dollars a month and buy your new equipment and you'll have $3,000 a month left over? Yes.

How does that impact your company? Well, it allows us to go hire someone else. How does that impact you personally? Well, it makes me look really good in my company. It gives me a promotion. It gives me this, you know, I can, I have a little bit of you know, boasting rights, right? All of these things. And this is, this was the conversation I was having with these people. And so we'd show it in the numbers. They would sign on the line, a three to five year contract. I would get handsomely paid.

I would take a piece of that and pay the vendor. Right? So they were getting money from me. They were getting new phone service or new data, new hardware, whatever. And it was just a win, win, win all the way around. So we created a win, win, win. Now these clients trusted me now as much as they trusted the vendors. So then when I asked for referrals to expand the sale or they needed something else, I was always there with followup that they were just

now buying again and again and referring their friends and their peers. So that's how that business grew. And it was very predictable. I knew exactly what my numbers were, And on the front end of our model, we have a mathematical model, and I'd be happy to go through that, which can show you in pinpoint, if you want to grow by 62%, I can show you actually in the numbers how you can do that.

Jim James (09:52)
Yeah.

I think that would be great to do that. But just to summarize, if I may, this approach where it's and as they had some closed questions first, you know, if I did this for you, would you like it? Yes, no, but it's an obvious yes. So it's the customer, potential customers. Obliged in a way to answer yes in a positive way to each of your first, I think there's three questions and then you moved into what would that look like for the company and then what would it look like

for you. So it's almost a foxtrot, if I can use that dance analogy. You got them moving in step with you, didn't you? And they found themselves on the dance floor with you, feeling like you're whisking them away. But actually, everyone was having a good time.

Doug C. Brown (10:39)
Yes.

Always.

Yes. And, and I call those yes states. want to create a yes state. So it's very perceptive view, Jim, actually, you're the first person who's interviewed me on a podcast who's ever caught that. So, right. So it's not manip, it's not manipulative. All right. It's not NLP or neuro-linguistic programming. You know, it's not, it is a win, win, win play. We're taking them along. They win the vendor won. I won.

Jim James (11:03)
Well, that's.

Doug C. Brown (11:21)
Other people in the company win. So the more you can help people through what we do, but you, we must position our statements that we get them, as you said, in motion in the Foxtrot moving, and then they'll allow you to lead them because they're looking for that solution. They're looking to resolve some challenge or gain an opportunity or accomplish a goal. Those are the three reasons that people buy. And, and that's what we're.

Jim James (11:48)
Yeah, and I think, yeah, and

as I think Zig Ziglar said, you know, you'll get what you want by helping other people to get what they want. But what's also critical there, Doug, is that you've made sure that you put the company first, because they're buying on behalf of the company, but also recognize that they have a personal stake in the decision. And ultimately, they may be faced, especially in B2B, with more than one vendor. In fact, by and large, they have to have more than one tender, don't they, to

Doug C. Brown (11:50)
That's what it did.

Yes.

Jim James (12:17)
pass through compliance. And then they're choosing you because you've taken them for that spin on the dance floor. It sounds like you have done a lot of work in advance when you talk about prospecting. It sounds like you prospecting, but also researching both of what they needed and of your financial model, it sounds.

Doug C. Brown (12:35)
Yes. And the research is a critical component, because we have to know, we must know as the seller, what's going to be the motivation. Right? So, and it doesn't matter whether it's, it's business or personal, like, you know, if we took dating, for example, two people want to go out on a date. Well, you have a great first date. Why you usually have common goals,

in that conversation that you're realizing like, well, this person would like to maybe be married someday and I want to get married someday. This person would like to have children and I want to have children or they don't want to have children and I don't want to have children, whatever it might be. They want to travel and I love to travel. So we're lining up all these things, but imagine, and we call this the ideal right fit buyer,

which is the second step in actually what we do. It's imagine being able to line up all of these things ahead of time so that you know these things ahead of time with high probability. So then the conversation is going in that direction. And now you just have to ask a few qualifying questions to find out if you should take the call or the conversation in that direction.

Jim James (13:52)
So Doug, you said that you've got a mathematical formula. I'd like to get onto that. But before you get there, could you just take us through the approach or maybe the tools you use for the research? Because, you know, when you and I started work, you know, the risk for anyone that's not able to see, know, Doug and I have both been working since, I guess, late, late 80s, early 90s, right? And, you know, in the old days, you actually had to get brochures from a trade show.

Doug C. Brown (14:20)
Yeah.

Jim James (14:20)
right,

in those days, or maybe look at a magazine. It's changed now. So what do you counsel to your clients at CEO Sales Strategies, Doug, when it comes to the research for those encounter meetings?

Doug C. Brown (14:34)
Sure. And so the research can be very in depth or it could be less in depth. The point of reference is you just have to know enough. So for example, when I was in the telecommunications company, I read three telecommunications engineering books. That was enough for me to converse with the customer. That was enough for me to converse with the engineers at my company. Now, did I know

what signaling, all the stuff that the engineers knew and all the terms. I knew a few of them by reading the book, but you don't have to, and this is what I want people to understand. You don't have to know everything. So when people do research, sometimes they'll research the agnosium and they're spending way too much time in the research. Now, the cool thing about research today is we have the internet. So websites,

LinkedIn, you know, meta, Instagram, wherever they are, you can find information and they're usually putting things out. And so that's easy. You also can do a Google search on their name. you type Doug C Brown revenue, whatever, anything, I'll come up on the, probably the, the, the top seven, eight pages. And there's lots of things there that you could find out about me.

And so you want to take all of these factors into consideration. And once you understand what those are, you can even use AI now to actually further deepen your research. And you can take all these factors, put them into AI and say, okay, what could be their motivators? What could be their fair points? What could be this? Right. And so you'll come up with a list and

Jim James (16:19)
Yeah.

Doug C. Brown (16:26)
If you do this enough over a, an industry, you'll actually know what the, the top five motivators are, the top five fears, the top five wants the top five, know, so in, in, when we're helping clients, this is what we do. And believe it or not, Jim, this is one of the biggest challenges that companies out there have.

Jim James (16:36)
Yeah.

Which is the biggest challenge, the research part? Okay, because it's interesting because now it's going to say you've also got tools like Dun & Bradstreet or Compass, right, as well, which create dedicated profiles of companies and revenue targets and things like churn. When I worked in Telco, for example, with my PR agency in Singapore, we used to work with Pula in Marsat, for example, and it was about churn and packet data and price per packet and those sorts of

Doug C. Brown (16:50)
No, they don't know they're right fit buyers.

Jim James (17:18)
It's like you Doug, if you have a nice time talking tech after the podcast. You did talk about a mathematical formula, Doug C. Brown. So I would be remiss if having introduced you as someone who said you've got a formula to not press you on letting us see it. What's the formula? How do we do it?

Doug C. Brown (17:18)
Sure.

You

Yeah.

Yeah. What's the formula?

So, so first thing, before you even get into a formula, what I want people to understand is you've got to know your goal. So the, the, the, the right fit goal, if you will. And what, what do I mean by that? What I mean by that is we absolutely have to know our true North of the goal.

If we don't know the true north of the goal, then we'll create a fictitious plan to get there. So for example, let's say that somebody says, I want to double my business, but they truly don't want to double their business. Well, the metrics are going to show you how to double your business and the work activity that comes along will be to double your business. But if you're just looking for like, let's say, you know, a lot of companies would like a 25% growth, right? If we could get 25% growth. So if we look at the metrics

and we start to look at the categories of metrics. The first one is going to be how many outreaches are going out. So if you take outreaches and we increase the number of outreaches, but the actual close ratio, the appointment ratio, everything stays the same, the more we increase that outreach, the higher that number will go. So if we had, in theory, a 25% increase in outreach, then we, in theory, should get 25% revenue growth out of that.

But what's wonderful about the metrics is these metrics compound. They stack on one another. So when we look out at the outreach, then what we want to look at is the connection rate. How many people are we actually connecting? Because if our connection rate is low, Jim, we can improve that connection rate. So we can then maybe not, we don't need to maybe go out to more people. We just need to improve the connection rate. So then what's the positive response rate from that connection?

So what's a connection rate, by the way, a connection rate is they actually saw or they actually conversed. Right. So if you think a direct mail, it usually has a very high connection rate because if you get a postcard in the mail, you pick it up and you look at it. That's a connection. But if you're sending an email, you might get a 20, 30%. Right. So it's, it's one of these things that we improve the connection. So first is the reach out second is connection.

Jim James (19:47)
Yep.

Doug C. Brown (19:58)
The third is the positive responses. The more positive responses we can get, the higher the next ratio will be your appointments. So as we're bringing it down to this mathematical model, please understand folks that this actually creates compounding interest. It's that effect. So once you measure out the appointments,

The next question is, okay, how many closes are we getting out of the appointments? Now there could be sub ratios, like how many appointments are we actually keeping? Right? We could get, like, I just had a client that had, they went out and did 110 appointments and they only had six people show up for the appointments. And they were like, what's wrong? I'm like, you're not talking to the right buyer. I can tell you that right now. Right. So then once we straightened it out, they talked to 10 people, they got six appointments. Right. So.

Jim James (20:35)
Mm.

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Doug C. Brown (20:50)
That's pretty, you know, swift change, right? And in a positive direction. So after you measure the appointments to the closes, the next ratio is the follow-up closes. This is where people drop the ball a lot of times. They sometimes think that people aren't interested and so they don't follow up with them or they get overwhelmed and they don't follow up with them, you know, because they just forget, right?

Jim James (20:54)
Absolutely, yeah.

Doug C. Brown (21:14)
So there's always a percentage of follow-up closes that happen. So then in that process, what's the increase in transactional value and what's the increase in the repeated buyers that we can get going on. Now, if you just take those ratios only, and you start doing these mathematically, you can pinpoint the revenue that you will get by doing the activity increase of those ratios.

Jim James (21:37)
Right, I guess you say then it really is a formula and presumably there are also some ways that you can look at the kind of numbers that you're getting, whether for example the close rate is low, whether as you say you've got a fox trot or maybe you're trying to do a rave instead of a fox trot, right? You haven't necessarily got the right kind of moves in the room or you can increase the order value, right, by changing the offer as well. So then you can start to finesse that, you, as well?

Doug C. Brown (22:04)
Exactly. And then the second step is dialing in that right fit buyer because all these, all the mathematics, all the metrics work so much more effectively. I had a friend, Dave, Dave, if you listen into this, I'm sorry, but Dave Anderson, Dave came to me one day and he said, Jim, he goes, he's trying to find a perfect girl for himself. Right. And he's like, comes back, he goes, Doug,

Jim James (22:28)
Okay, this is a different show.

We'll create a different show for this episode, don't we? This is the Tinder episode of The UnNoticed Entrepreneur.

Doug C. Brown (22:32)
I want to demonstrate the right fit buyer here. So,

Dave's one of the nicest guys on the planet, right? Dave is just a lovely guy. he's good looking man. He's got a lot to offer people. And he comes to me one day and he says, Doug, there are no good women in the United States left. And I said, wait a minute.

Jim James (22:54)
Okay.

Doug C. Brown (22:56)
It's like 330 million people. Let's say in your age bracket, like there's gotta be tens of millions of women that are actually here. Not one of them is any good, right? He goes, well, I don't really mean it that way. He goes, I just can't find one. I said, well, tell me what you're looking for. And he said, well, he gave me these criteria for the first free will. I want a church going woman who goes to church every week. She's got to have a master's degree. She wants to work and be independent on her own,

and you know, she, she loves to dance, right. And he gave me a couple others. And I said, well, tell me where you're looking for these women, goes, well, I'm going down to McKinsey's bar and I'm going down here and I'm like, like Dave, what kind of church going woman with a master's degree, you know, who is hanging out at a bar on a regular basis, right? With the criteria you said, and he said, geez, I never thought about that.

I said, well, what are you saying to him? He gave me the line. I'm like, that's not going to work. You're like, you know, so I said to him, said, Dave, we live around universities and many of them have religious backgrounds, Holy Cross, all this. Why don't you go to a Holy Cross mixer for people who have advanced degrees? And it's a dance, right? So go there and, know, and, for the change your line, right? Change your line to this, right? Because

we did a little research, Jim, and we found out what these ladies would like to hear as an opening line, right? And they're not looking to, you know, have the cheesy line that most guys have. They're just looking to get to know somebody. And so he goes to this mixer and four years later, he's still with the same lady and gets married. Right? And so it's like, that's how quickly dialing this in can change

Jim James (24:30)
Mm.

Doug C. Brown (24:47)
the trajectory of your life or your sales in this case, right? So once we get through that, then the next step is prospecting. And we're wrapping six new ways around this prospecting with the ideal client, measuring the metrics. The next step from there is creating the conversational conversion. Because if your messaging is off, no matter how good you dial it in, if your messaging is off, you know,

Jim James (24:51)
Yeah, Doug, that's it.

Doug C. Brown (25:15)
like he was walking up the gals at the bar and going, Hey, I find you beautiful. I think you probably find me beautiful. You know, what do you think? do you find me beautiful? You know, that type of line. And I'm like, my gosh, no. Right. So, right. So.

Jim James (25:26)
this is probably not going to work. So

yeah, so I think Doug, you've highlighted the importance of really knowing your ideal customer, but also knowing what you're looking for as a business and that you need to keep track of both of those. And Doug's actually got a resource that he's going to share in a couple of minutes because we've managed to get a lot of Doug's time. Doug, as you move to the end of

this interview because today you've already given us a huge amount of value and you've demonstrated that it is possible to have metrics that you do need to have, like a dance that you understand that you're to be going for and also who your dance partner would be and what kind of dance it is that you'd be looking to do on the floor. Doug, if there's a number one tip that you would give an entrepreneur when it comes to trying to find predictable sales, what would it be?

Doug C. Brown (26:18)
Well, firstly, get very clear about what you want because I have worked with so many entrepreneurs, companies, and they think they have a goal, but it's not the true goal. So, know, Jim, you and I were talking earlier and, know, I spent eight years in university, never getting a degree, right? But I had enough credits to get a master's degree at that point.

Cause I was just taking a course and a course and, you know, what was my goal? I had no outcome really. I just wanted to be in the university system, right? Because that's what we were supposed to do, get an education. But I had no clear outcome until my brother said to me, you know, Doug, what do you, it's nice. You're going to school like this, but you know, in the United States, we pay for school, you know, college. So.

What are you going to do with this? Now you've got $20,000 worth of loans back then in the eighties, right? And I said, geez, I probably should get a degree, right? And do something with this. So I decided on a degree and it took me about seven months to get the degree. But the, point being is I had a clear goal at that point. And so I knew what classes to take to accomplish that goal. If, if one doesn't have a clear goal in life, they'll float. If one doesn't have a clear goal in business.

Jim James (27:14)
Yeah.

Doug C. Brown (27:38)
They'll start doing things and investing money in places they don't need to, or not investing money in places they need to, hiring people they don't need to, or not hiring people that they do need to. that's the first step. I would, know, Hey, we're in the beginning of 2025. A lot of people think new year's resolution. I would ask them, get a very clear goal and be truthful about that goal. It's okay. If you're not making $50 million, if that's truly not what you want to do.

I have a lot of friends that are very happy at making just a very moderate amount of money in life, but man, they're happier than people I know that are billionaires. So that's kind of the key.

Jim James (28:17)
Yeah, yeah.

Okay, well, that's one also. Identify the goal because both for you as the entrepreneur and the company, my experiences there, inextricably linked actually, aren't they, Doug? Doug, what about a podcast or a book that you found inspirational that you would then share with me and my fellow UnNoticed?

Doug C. Brown (28:29)
Yes.

shameless plug other than my book or other than my podcast or

Jim James (28:41)
Well, share your own as well, absolutely. Why not? Doug has

got his own book and we'll put a link to that in the show notes too.

Doug C. Brown (28:48)
Yeah. I wrote a book called win-win selling, unlocking the power of profitability by resolving objections. It's all on around objections, Jim. But it really goes into the psychology and the philosophy of communication. Because, and this is what, you know, some people I'm going to just hold the book up just to plug it, but no, here we go. Right. So, the, the, the reason I wrote this book was,

Jim James (29:10)
Yeah, there you go. Win-win selling by Doug C. Brown. Lovely.

Doug C. Brown (29:18)
people were always asking me, do you handle these conversations? Cause I couldn't figure it out. And I'm like, it's you're, trying to sell something versus trying to help somebody win, win. And so why don't I write a book about it? And I did. And you know, it's done quite well and I'm, I'm very happy and proud of the book. So that, and I have a podcast called the CEO sales strategies podcast, which, you know, we talk about

with entrepreneurs on things like we're talking about, Jim, how to resolve problems, what did they go through, what did they not go through, et cetera.

Jim James (29:53)
Wonderful. So we'll put links to both of Doug's assets in the show notes. And Doug, you've kindly got an offer, a resource for my fellow unnoticed entrepreneurs. What is that? And I will put a link to that in the show notes as well. What have you got to help us all get predictable sales?

Doug C. Brown (30:08)
So

yeah, so it's really a marketing and sales. Call it internally here, we call it the marketing and sales checklist. Externally, we give it a better marketing name, but the reality is if you go to www.CEOSalesStrategies.com/checklist it is a series of questions that people can actually figure out where the holes are in their marketing and their sales. It's our most popular

you know, thing that people like to do. And because it gives them that revelation of, okay, I'm doing great here, but I could, yeah, I could do a little better there, right? So, yeah, so if you go to the sales and marketing on a checklist, yep, right there.

Jim James (30:53)
Okay,

right, and we'll put that in the show notes. I've also shared that with the screen sharing for anyone that wants to see this on YouTube. Doug, thank you so much. If people want to get hold of you, how can they do that?

Doug C. Brown (31:08)
Well, they could send me an email directly at doug@ceosalesstrategies.com I, I usually answer my email by myself, Jim, but sometimes, you know, a couple of people monitor my email, so they, might respond first. or they can, know, Doug Brown, one, two, three at, you know, LinkedIn is, the other best place to get me.

Jim James (31:30)
Okay, you like the sales, one, two, three, you make it sound all logical. Doug C. Brown, joining me from Nashua in New Hampshire. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Doug C. Brown (31:39)
Jim, thank you for having me. You've been a gracious host and I appreciate your interview style very much.

Jim James (31:45)
Well, thank you very much. well, Doug and I had a Foxtrot, we had our very own dance. So wonderful. And I changed the format a little bit for this episode where we can really deep dive into a specific problem rather than go through an entrepreneurial journey, because I think this is going to be a way that we can get more results for those of you listening that you can apply directly into your business. So thank you for joining me on this episode of The UnNoticed Entrepreneur. If you've enjoyed it, please

leave a review or share it with a fellow UnNoticed Entrepreneur because you know we don't want to leave anyone unnoticed. Until we meet again I just encourage you to keep on communicating.